# The most libeled people in history **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 6, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205 "2014-06-06T15:31:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/81 "2014-06-12T19:59:02Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > [Gary Webb](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb), the subject of a soon to be released movie [Kill The Messenger](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0gbQk38F0g). He was destroyed by his own peers and the people he worked with. All this despite the fact that he was proved correct soon afterwards. He was found with _two_ shotgun wounds to the head, and the coroner ruled it suicide?[sup]1[/sup] [sup]1[/sup]Yes, I know. Double barreled shotgun. I guess. I hope the coroner’s not that dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/82 "2014-06-12T20:10:24Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > The next Republican nominee for President will get progressives comparing him unfavorably to Reagan. Yeah, but the GOP and Tea Partiers (and Libertarians?) even compare Jehovah unfavorably to Reagan. :dubious: –G! ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/83 "2014-06-14T01:30:28Z")
> [@bup](#): > > He was found with _two_ shotgun wounds to the head, and the coroner ruled it suicide?[sup]1[/sup] > [sup]1[/sup]Yes, I know. Double barreled shotgun. I guess. I hope the coroner’s not that dumb. I believe it was his father’s pistol not a shotgun. Supposedly the first shot just went through his cheek. But there are people that believe he was murdered by the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/84 "2014-06-14T03:40:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Bligh appears to have been an excellent seaman with a singular gift for making people hate him because of his habitual nasty sarcastic tone. > > He wasn’t brutal, in fact he was singularly humane by the standards of the day - and courageous and an excellent navagator. But he apparently really just got under people’s skin, snarkily needling them about trivial stuff. > > I can imagine, cooped up on a tiny ship for literally months, that would rankle. To mutiny because of that was of course nuts, but that’s just it - he drove subordinates nuts. As governor of New South Wales, [Bligh also managed to spark an armed rebellion and overthrow by his own military](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion), still the only one in Australian history. He wasn’t a ranting maniac, in many ways he was an admirable and enlightened commander, but he did have a singular gift for pissing subordinates off. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/85 "2014-06-14T05:27:36Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > I believe it was his father’s pistol not a shotgun. Supposedly the first shot just went through his cheek. But there are people that believe he was murdered by the CIA. It’s not uncommon for suicides to require more than one gunshot to the head, especially with a small pistol. People don’t realize that killing yourself with a headshot is rarely as quick & clean as it’s shown in the movies; in fact, the most common scenario is that the first bullet doesn’t kill you instantly, but you’re too messed up and/or paralyzed to take a second shot, so you end up slowly & painfully bleeding to death. As for the CIA murdering him – seems unlikely. Not that I know anything, but I’d imagine that the CIA doesn’t cotton to assassinating American citizens, especially those in the public eye. Too noisy, and you run the risk of a future Ed Snowden spilling the beans. Seems more effective to instead discredit the guy, causing him to lose his job, his home, his livelihood…hmm, waitaminute. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/86 "2014-06-14T11:19:07Z")
Mata Hari. More than likely nothing more than a not very clever courtesan. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/87 "2014-06-14T11:59:39Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > As governor of New South Wales, [Bligh also managed to spark an armed rebellion and overthrow by his own military](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion), still the only one in Australian history. He wasn’t a ranting maniac, in many ways he was an admirable and enlightened commander, but he did have a singular gift for pissing subordinates off. Yes, he may have pissed off his subordinates but I believe he was largely vindicated eventually for his actions. And without trying to place firm parameters the original question is a little difficult to answer - as an example, I think Bligh was badly treated. However, how many others here on the board have heard the story? Similarly Gary Webb- who seems to have been the victim of bastardisation - was unknown to me. A universally known figure I would think has more claims to being more libeled than a locally- or nationally, known entity. And maybe another thread about those creatures who can’t be loathed sufficiently like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Manson… ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/88 "2014-06-14T14:07:23Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Mata Hari. More than likely nothing more than a not very clever courtesan. Her reputation is not tarnished, it’s completely puffed-up; quite the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/89 "2014-06-15T03:42:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I heard an interesting theory recently. It said that Machiavelli wrote _The Prince_ as an exposé. He obviously wasn’t inventing the ruthless politics he wrote about. He was just writing about ruthless tactics that politicians were already using. But by doing so, he was making them obvious. > > Now when a ruler tried to use the political tricks Machiavelli had told everyone about, his subjects would recognize what he was doing. And that would make it impossible for rulers to use the trick. > > So _The Prince_ was essentially an attack against the Medici. Not by ineffectively denouncing them but by revealing the political tricks they (and others like them) used to hold power and thereby making it impossible for them to use those tricks. Sounds pretty weak to me. What, some Florentine is going to say “Hold it! He’s being feared more than loved!” and the Medici will say “Curses! Foiled by that infernal Machiavelli! Time to use a trick that he \*hasn’t \*exposed!” ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/90 "2014-06-15T03:47:06Z")
> [@danhanegan](#): > > Richard Nixon > > Opened trade with China, talked the Soviet Union into a nuclear arms limitation treaty, ended U.S. involvement in Vietnam. But no one cares about that, the only accurate fact anyone bothers to remember is he was involved in illegal wiretapping. IIRC, he wasn’t involved in illegal wiretapping. ---
**Author:** ![Cmgww](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Cmgww](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmgww)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/91 "2014-06-15T04:46:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Who are the left wing equivalents of Glenn Beck, Anne Coulter, Sean Hannity, Charles Krauthammer, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, and Bill O’Reilly? And by that I mean people who are not only as left wing as these people are right wing but also have the same public access these people are given? Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, Al Sharpton, and pretty much anyone else on MSNBC. That network is as left as Fox News is right. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2014, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/92 "2014-06-15T06:58:53Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > And without trying to place firm parameters the original question is a little difficult to answer - as an example, I think Bligh was badly treated. However, how many others here on the board have heard the story? Similarly Gary Webb- who seems to have been the victim of bastardisation - was unknown to me. He has had at least three major Hollywood movies devoted to him; he was played by Charles Laughton, Trevor Howard and Anthony Hopkins. He’s not exactly an obscure figure; I’d be a little disappointed in anyone who didn’t at least know the name and associate it with a tyrannical naval captain who sparked a mutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205/93 "2014-06-16T12:04:16Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Her reputation is not tarnished, it’s completely puffed-up; quite the opposite. I don’t understand your logic (aside from you wishing to disagree with anything I state). The title posited which people were the most libeled in history- Mata Hari certainly was, and whether she is remembered for that rather than her other activities has no bearing. She was extremely well known for her Paris life before being executed as a spy, and I would suggest the knowledge of her execution, whilst doing little for her future career, certainly made people look upon her with disfavour. 90% of people in this thread have had their lives remembered as much for the deeds assigned to them rather than their acual lives. All that aside, I would add another figure- Sir Douglas Haig. He won a war for the UK. He has been disparaged for the losses of men when all military men were struggling with technology and a new style of war. He was not a heartless butcher- he was the man the UK needed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-libeled-people-in-history/690205.md?page=4)