# The Most Sensual of the Salted, Cured Meats **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2001, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165 "2001-05-22T04:27:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/41 "2001-05-25T04:11:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Billdo \* > \*\*Yep, Russian dressing is an acceptable sandwich condiment. > > And your hummus sandwich sounds great, but isn’t it a bit off topic in a cured meats thread? \*\* Sorry I didn’t meat your standards. And thank you, Chronos. I’m an open-minded, opportunistic eater (not that I’d ever put catsup on a hotdog…) ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/42 "2001-05-25T04:27:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pluto \* > **…1. If your sandwich needs mayonnaise, it wasn’t much of a sandwich to begin with…** Either you have never had a BLT or Club sandwich or, in fact, you are a pervert who eats them without it. And thank you **Chronos** for putting Russian dressing into full perspective. The only place it tastes really good is on a Foster’s Freeze hamburger. ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/43 "2001-05-25T05:06:01Z")
I’m not much of a mayo person, but a club sandwich sure needs it. The perfect club = 3 slices of toasted bread (white or wheat), turky, lettuce, tomato, swiss cheese (yes the good stuff, not the crappy alpine lace waxy shit… i prefer Ementaler myself), crispy bacon, and mayo. Big thick-cut skin-on french fries go quite well with it. A corned beef sandwich needs swiss cheese too, not cheddar. Cheddar does not go with corned beef any more than mayo does. Hebrew National deli mustard = the best. This paragraph applies to pastrami as well. I prefer corned beef to pastrami though. It’s … purer. ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/44 "2001-05-25T12:05:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > **Illogic abounds. The so-called sandwich experts claim that mayonaise is an abomination on a sandwich. I shudder to think what their reaction would be to ketchup** I myself do not like mayo or mustard, so I put ketchup/catsup on all my sandwiches. The following true conversation occured at a local kosher deli when a waitress took exception to this: [KVS] “I’ll have a hot corned beef on rye, with ketchup, and a potato knish.” [Waitress] (looking critically at KVS) “Ketchup? Are you sure you’re Jewish?” ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/45 "2001-05-25T14:25:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > **Illogic abounds. The so-called sandwich experts claim that mayonaise is an abomination on a sandwich. I shudder to think what their reaction would be to ketchup.** Not really. The objective of applying mayo to a sandwich is to add gloss…fat. It’s just perfect when you’re making a sandwich out of Mom’s roast Thanksgiving turkey, in which the breast meat is inevitably dried out. Pastrami is a notoriously fatty meat. Why add mayonnaise? As I alluded in my joke (from an old Mad magazine parody of the teevee show _Bridget Loves Bernie_) and **KVS** alluded also, mayo on corned beef or pastrami denotes “Whitebread Suburban Two-Car Garage Goy” in some urban circles. And I do put ketchup on hamburger sandwiches, so there. ---
**Author:** ![poohpah\_chalupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/91b2a8/32.png) [@poohpah\_chalupa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/poohpah_chalupa)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/46 "2001-05-25T14:37:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bughunter \* > **…thin sliced pastrami, steeped in hot brine, and piled perversely high on a french roll with lots of yellow mustard and dill slices…** ::stands and applauds:: _That’s_ good eatin’. …accessories, however, include _regular_ fries and a root beer. ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/47 "2001-05-25T14:58:14Z")
I forgot to ask, **why fries?** If you’re going with a nice, kosher meat like corned beef or pastrami, you need a really fresh, hot, potato or kasha knish to go with it - and Dr. Browns Black Cherry soda as well. Oy - my cholesterol count gets higher just thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/48 "2001-05-25T15:48:10Z")
On reubens - I did refer to adding sauerkraut as creating a variant of a rueben, not a canonical, authoritive, definitive reuben - I’ve seen them made with either corned beef or pastrami. The light rye is fine, too, provided it’s got caraway seeds. On the mayo base in the dressing - yes, but by the time it is coexisting with the kraut and been adulterated with the other stuff that’s in it, you’ve taken the slimy edge off it. And I’m not all that wild about the goo in your resturaunt reuben anyway. If I make one at home I use meat, cheese, kraut and mustard - no goo. Mayo exists for being a base in things like potato salad. Not as a flavor in its own right - its purpose is to make the stuff you WANT to taste stick together for convenience. And I tend to avoid ketchup, too, including on burgers and hotdogs. Lew Grizzard once had a column about there being ketchup people and mustard people - to his credit, he was a mustard person. One of his points - you spill ketchup on yourself, it looks awful, like you’ve been shot. You spill mustard on yourself, you look like you were a slob and spilled mustard on yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/49 "2001-05-25T18:25:55Z")
So, just to sum up, we all agree on the following points, right? [ul][li]Mustard is good[/li][li]Fat is good, and low-fat variations of products are an abomination[/li][li]Cheddar is good in its own way, for other purposes, but cured meats go better with a milder cheese like Swiss or Provolone[/li][li]Cabbage, in various forms, is good, and good with cured meats[/li]Rye bread (of some sort) is good, especially with cured meats[/ul]Am I missing anything? ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/50 "2001-05-25T22:55:36Z")
yeah… hold the mayo! ---
**Author:** ![City\_Gent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a87d85/32.png) [@City\_Gent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/City_Gent)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/51 "2001-05-25T23:09:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yabob \* > \*\*On reubens - I did refer to adding sauerkraut as creating a variant of a rueben, not a canonical, authoritive, definitive reuben - I’ve seen them made with either corned beef or pastrami. > > The light rye is fine, too, provided it’s got caraway seeds. > > On the mayo base in the dressing - yes, but by the time it is coexisting with the kraut and been adulterated with the other stuff that’s in it, you’ve taken the slimy edge off it. And I’m not all that wild about the goo in your resturaunt reuben anyway. If I make one at home I use meat, cheese, kraut and mustard - no goo. > \*\* A Reuben is a grilled sandwich consisting of corned beef, sauerkraut, Swiss cheese, and Thousand Island dressing on rye. The only acceptable substitution is Russian in place of the Thousand Island. Otherwise, it ain’t a Reuben. I am glad to see that you all have used the lower-case “r” to indicate that you are aware of the regulations. By the way, if you eat a lot of Reubens, do you become Reubenesque or just Rubensesque? (Both good :)) And imported prosciutto di Parma is of course the most sensual of the cured meats. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2001, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/52 "2001-05-26T00:08:01Z")
Back to the OP, I know that corned beef is cured in salty brine. But is pastrami? I thought it was cured dry, then smoked. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2001, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/53 "2001-05-26T00:24:57Z")
See [http://howstuffworks.lycos.com/question298.htm](http://howstuffworks.lycos.com/question298.htm) The smoking seems to be the distinction. It seems you can make either dry or wet cure. According to that, you get pastrami by smoking corned beef. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2001, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/54 "2001-05-26T01:40:57Z")
No lame ass Vernor’s for me, it’s Reed’s Jamaica Ginger Brew all the way. (I haven’t tried Celrey’s, but I imagine if it’s in the same class as Vernor’s it’s not very good.) I know, I know, tradition. I’m all for tradition but you can’t beat the intense bite of Reed’s. P.S. Is Reed’s just a west-coast thing? ---
**Author:** ![Bumbazine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbazine/32/362_2.png) [@Bumbazine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbazine)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2001, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/55 "2001-05-26T03:43:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sjc \* > \*\*No lame ass Vernor’s for me, it’s Reed’s Jamaica Ginger Brew all the way. (I haven’t tried Celrey’s, but I imagine if it’s in the same class as Vernor’s it’s not very good.) > > I know, I know, tradition. I’m all for tradition but you can’t beat the intense bite of Reed’s. > > P.S. Is Reed’s just a west-coast thing? \*\* Now hold on just a cotton-pickin minute there Mr. **sjc,** It’s certainly okay to tout the virtues of Reed’s excellent ginger brew, I’m a big fan myself. But to call Vernor’s _“lame ass”_ is…is…is blasphemous, that’s what it is! Sometimes one wants the boisterousness of a Reed’s, but sometimes a nice smooooth Vernor’s is exactly what’s called for. A gourmand such as myself enjoys both, I’ll have you know! Although I rather prefer Vernor’s, being a smooth customer myself. [sub]Impertinant little guttersnipe![/sub] Incidentally, the only place I’m able to get Reed’s in Oregon is at Trader Joes. I’ve never seen it anyplace else, and I’ve been in a lot of places. [sub]Yes I _do_ know what gourmand means, I was being funny.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![ShouldBeWorking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@ShouldBeWorking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShouldBeWorking)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/56 "2001-09-24T17:00:53Z")
What does Pastrami taste like? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/57 "2001-09-24T17:15:01Z")
A little like corned beef, but peppery-er. – Uke, wondering why you re-opened this old thread to ask such a goofball question. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/58 "2001-09-24T18:50:32Z")
**Sue Dunhym** – Dr. Brown’s Cel-ray is a soda (yes, a soda sweetened with sugar) with the flavor of celery at its base. It was originally sold as a sort of digestive tonic, much like Vernor’s. It has a very bizarre taste which takes some getting used to, much like Vernor’s. My mom loves it, but for me its a once-a-year thing, like Gefilte fish (both consumed at Passover, btw.) Should you ever get the yen to try it, Cel-Ray may be purchased at Zingerman’s deli in Ann Arbor. You know, everytime I go to Zingies with the intention of getting a pastrami sandwich, I always end up getting whitefish salad, with tomato and scallion cream cheese, on pumpernickel. What does this say about me!??? And, finally, a confession: _I put ketchup on roast beef sandwiches_. I’m almost ashamed to call myself a New York Jew. \ ---
**Author:** ![jcg20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@jcg20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jcg20)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/59 "2001-09-24T20:49:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JillGat \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Billdo \* > > \*\*Yep, Russian dressing is an acceptable sandwich condiment. > > > > And your hummus sandwich sounds great, but isn’t it a bit off topic in a cured meats thread? \*\* > > Sorry I didn’t meat your standards. And thank you, Chronos. I’m an open-minded, opportunistic eater (not that I’d ever put catsup on a hotdog…) \*\* Ok, this has got to end. It seems JillGat here intends on adding another layer of tedious (albeit sure-to-be interesting) banter atop the sliced meat discussion with her (mis)use of the word “ketchup”. 1. A hotdog is not a sandwich. It is a bun-based sausage variant. It is indeed “sandwiched” between pieces of leavened bread (in anticipation of a throng of posts to the contrary), but does not qualify due to its form factor. 2. The \* only \* sandwich containing a sliced and/or cured meat contains spiced beef, pepper cheese, and hot mustard. These ingredients are heated until said cheese is melted, placed on a hoagie roll (only available in Philadelphia) and consumed with Dr. Brown’s Black Cherry. C’mon people, get with the program. ---
**Author:** ![epolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@epolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epolo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165/60 "2001-09-24T21:12:19Z")
I never noticed this thread before but now that I have, here’s my 2 scents: 1. My favorite pastrami is to be found at [Pastrami Queen](http://www.pastramiqueen.baweb.com/index.html). I liked them better in Queens though (when they were Pastrami King). My parents insist that the best was a different branch of the Pastrami Royal Family in Williamsburg. 2. Cheese has no place on a pastrami sandwich, however good it might taste (and it does taste good) if for no other reason than that the best pastrami comes from kosher delis. Better to eat the pastrami sandwich, wait six hours, and then eat the cheese. You’ll still be tasting the pastrami and cheese together, trust me. And you’ll avoid the risk of being struck by lightening. 😃 3. The mayo issue has been beaten to death. But FWIW you could probably get away with it if and only if you make the mayo yourself. 4. A good pastrami should be coated with a variety of spices including black pepper and garlic. Garlic is key. 5. The best bread is NOT rye. I like rye. It’s a good second choice. The best though is a good **heavy corn bread**. NB this is a regular bread, not that sweet yellow stuff from the South (which is also yummy but not in this context). 6. Ketchup exists as a matrix to hold Tabasco sauce to fries. 7. If you’re going to drink ginger beer (rather than the cannonical Dr. Brown’s Black Cherry) make it home-brewed. My taste for ginger beer was aquired young at the [West Indian Day Parade](http://www.reggaeweb.com/events/westindianday/1999/index.htm) and none of the bottled stuff ever tastes right by comparison. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-sensual-of-the-salted-cured-meats/66165.md?page=4)