# The Most Significant SF & Fantasy Books of the Last 50 Years **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 5, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233 "2003-03-05T13:55:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/41 "2003-03-05T19:04:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Politzania \* > \*\*19 for sure, maybe 1 or two more. Or I’ve read something else by that author. The list has been duly copied to my Visor & will be referenced on my next visit to the library/bookstore. > > 4 names I didn’t recognize: Gene Wolfe, Wilmar Shiras, John Crowley & Gregory Benford – what am I missing? \*\* Wolfe – one of the best literary stylists in SF. His books in the 80s were breathtakingly good. The Book of the New Sun is four volumes, consisting of **The Shadow of the Torturer, The Claw of the Concilator, The Sword of the Lichtor** and **The Citadel of the Autarch** (alt title: The Castle of the Otter 😉 ). There are also a couple of other New Sun books, all set in a far future time and filled with wonders. Other fine Wolfe Books are **Soldier of the Mist** (which uses the same plot device as was later used in “Memento”), **Free Live Free** (even the NY Times considered this one of the best books of the year) and **There are Doors** , as well as his great short story collection **The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories**. Shiras is pretty much only known for **Children of the Atom** a sympathetic look at mutant supermen. John Crowley is a fantasist. Finally, Benford is a first-class hard SF writer. As for Cordwainer Smith – including his name on the list makes up for all other mistakes. As far as the Terry Brooks – Ray Feist has pointed out that Shannara showed the publishing industry that non-Tolkien fantasy (yes, I know 😉 ) can sell, which opened things for many fantasy writers. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/42 "2003-03-05T19:05:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\* > Also, I’d have liked to have seen Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars trilogy on the list. \*\* Good lord, no! Red mars is terrible! i went 150 pages in and cared about no character at all. And why was there only one asian total in the initial crew full of engineers and scientists? plus he uses Muslims as easily manipulated terrorists. Felt like shades of racism to me. for the list, 10.3 (only read 1/3 of LOTR). I won’t read the rest of LOTR or Simillaron, or many of the other fantasy novels. But i need to get around to reading Ringworld, i liked Mote in God’s Eye, so if it is as good as that on. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/43 "2003-03-05T19:12:21Z")
About 44 or so. Top Geek! Cue the Kenny Rogers music! I’ve read all the sf, but I’m missing a few of the fantasy/horror novels. (I _think_ I read _On the Beach_ about 30 or so years ago, but I honestly can’t remember now.) The _USAToday_ article says they tried for a balance of popular and best, which loosens the rules so that almost anything could be justified. And they did justify almost anything. Wilmar Shiras? I know that some people say that _Children of the Atom_ influenced the creation of the X-Men, but I think that proposition is ludicrous (like there weren’t other mutants in sf?). And have you tried reading the book lately? The rest is a mosh of styles, types, popularity, influence, literary ambition, and importance. There are only so many truly significant books in any field, and they did hit most of the ones that would get picked in any survey of the top 50. It wouldn’t be my list or my top 10, but outside of a couple really odd choices can you quibble? What fun would it be if I couldn’t? Surely they could have found one book by, say, Robert Silverberg, Poul Anderson, Bruce Sterling, or Peter S. Beagle to replace some of those that made the list. Surely they could have found a spot for award-winners like _Flowers for Algernon_ and _Hyperion_. On the negative side, the Foundation stories almost all came out in the 40s, and the books appeared in 1951, 1952 and 1953 so they shouldn’t even have been eligible. The first Okie stories that make up Blish’s _Cities in Flight_ series are also all more than 50 years old, and they are just pulp twaddle if you read them today. (So’s Foundation for that matter.) Blish won a Hugo for _A Case of Conscience_. Use that instead if you have to name him. And Delany’s proto-cyberpunk _Babel-17_ is far more significant than the never-imitated _Dhalgren_ (yes, I finished it), while Dick’s _The Man in the High Castle_ is just infinitely better than _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep_. I could go on. Great list. Full of junk. Wonderful quibbling. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/44 "2003-03-05T19:20:39Z")
Loggins. Kenny _Loggins_. ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/45 "2003-03-05T19:35:21Z")
1. I would have listed _Speaker for the Dead_ before _Ender’s Game_. (But I would have listed them both.) The list also contains a goodly representation of post-apocalyptic fantasy, but you can never have too much. The only really glaring omission is dystopic fiction: neither _Brave New World_ nor _1984_? The list doesn’t stray too far from hardcore science-fiction, which I appreciate, but I wouldn’t have minded a little more borderline-fantasy. For example, _The Chronicles of Narnia_ by C.S. Lewis, and _Replay_ by Ken Grimwood. What about _Planet of the Apes_ by Pierre Boulle? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/46 "2003-03-05T19:46:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by brianmelendez \* > \*\*The only really glaring omission is dystopic fiction: neither _Brave New World_ nor _1984_? > \*\* Pre-1953. So are the first three Narnia books. ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/47 "2003-03-05T19:48:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*Pre-1953. So are the first three Narnia books. \*\* Ahh, I see. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/48 "2003-03-05T20:19:08Z")
I’ve read 36. > [@](#): > > Actually, my big quibble with the list was that they put “The Demolished Man” ahead of “The Stars My Destination”. Both deserve to be ther, IMAO, but I’d have them in reverse order. I feel compelled to point out that the list appears to be in alphabetical order. I would have included the Amber series by Zelazny, and dumped Shannara. ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/49 "2003-03-05T20:32:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > **Mission of Gravity** unreadable? Them’s fightin’ words! \*\* Sorry Cal, I fought to read this book, beat it with my tiny fists, and the book won. It really bugged at the time because I’d come to get the book based on recommendations by the likes of Asimov, Bova, and Clarke, not bad company for those who like the book, but it just never did it for me. I even tried the old “put-it-down-and-pick-it-up-again-in-a-few-months”, but no dice. Of course there are those who might say that the fault is not with the book but with myself, but what do they know, I’m sticking to my guns, unreadable. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/50 "2003-03-05T20:32:32Z")
1. I don’t like Fantasy, so my list was diminished to begin with. Rendezvous with Rama should be ranked higher, IMO. Also, why only go back 50 years? Shouldn’t the most influential Sci-Fi / Fantasy books include all books, no matter when they were written? Perhaps we should start a new thread on that? Jonathan Swift, Wells, Vogel, Asimov, hell, this thread writes itself! ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/51 "2003-03-05T20:40:31Z")
The link’s drawing up a blank page for me (just the SFBC header). Anyone mind doing a cut’n’paste? ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/52 "2003-03-05T20:47:11Z")
**Tars Tarkas** > [@](#): > > Good lord, no! Red mars is terrible! i went 150 pages in and cared about no character at all. And why was there only one asian total in the initial crew full of engineers and scientists? plus he uses Muslims as easily manipulated terrorists. Felt like shades of racism to me. You don’t have to like it for it to be significant. Robinson’s trilogy is the high-water mark for hard science fiction (and more specifically, the terraforming subgenre). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/53 "2003-03-05T20:47:14Z")
Exapno: You are correct about the dates of the Narnia books, but I think if you’re going to include the Foundation Triology (the bulk of which was written in the 1940’s) and the Okie series (much of which was written before 1950), it should be permissible to include a series which has four books appearing after 1953. Dooku: It was probably a publicity gimmick (the most significant books from the past 50 years). I also think they should have had one list for fantasy and one for science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/54 "2003-03-05T20:49:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baldwin \* > **I feel compelled to point out that the list appears to be in alphabetical order.** The first ten are in order, then the next 40 are alphabetical by title. You got to love the irony that people are getting all riled up about a listing of top books, but they can’t read the list itself. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/55 "2003-03-05T20:53:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Obsidian Flutterby \* > \*\* > > On the Beach by Nevil Shute… wasn’t that the one they turned into a movie with DiCaprio? \*\* Nah. With **Fred Astaire**. The movie you’re thinking of is **The Beach** , based on a very good novell by Alex Garland. Yes. Tolkien virtually created the whole Fantasy genre, in the way we mean it today. So of course, the origianl trilogy is ‘significant’. Why Silmarillion is there, I’ll never understand. As for **The Past through tomorrow** , it’s a collection of stories, written in the 40’s, so don’t qualify. **Stranger** is not my favourite Heinlein, but its impact can not be neglected. ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/56 "2003-03-05T21:01:46Z")
28, and wondering (like several others) at some omissions. Harry Harrison, and more Heinlein, esp The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress and probably Job ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/57 "2003-03-05T21:14:36Z")
The Gaspode: You’re correct, of course, about when the stories were written, but I think the original publication date for The Past Through Tomorrow was 1967. If you’re going to include the Foundation Trilogy (and I would certainly include it on any list of the best science fiction), then I think TPTW would make the list, too. The stories in it and the Foundation Trilogy were written at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/58 "2003-03-05T21:22:24Z")
Very true. Peyote. I just checked the library of congress, and the Foundation trilogy doesn’t qualify. The three books were published 1951, 1952 and 1953. ---
**Author:** ![Banger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/59 "2003-03-05T21:23:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*Loggins. Kenny _Loggins_. \*\* I dunno… I kinda like the idea of someone walking up to a podium to collect the Top Geek Award while “The Gambler” plays on the sound system. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/60 "2003-03-05T22:00:05Z")
Quote from CalMeacham way up near the top of the thread: " I don’t think I’d put Sword of Shannara there – it seemed wayyy too derivative of Lord of the Rings, and I don’t think I’d call it influential (except to influence others to write LOTR-derived books)." - God how true! Putting a crappy pile of s\*\*\* like this on this list strains its credibility, to say the least. I work in a library and cringe every time I put one of this rip-off artist’s books away. Being influenced by someone like Tolkien is one thing; blatant rip-off is another. Did I mention I hate this Brooks guy and his books? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233.md?page=4)