# The Most Significant SF & Fantasy Books of the Last 50 Years **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 5, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233 "2003-03-05T13:55:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/81 "2003-03-06T03:42:29Z")
Some of these issues are being debated elsewhere. One point about Simek is that, though he is an influential author, he doesn’t really have an influential book. Same with Silverberg. I’d include **Dying Inside** , but I doubt many others have read it. > [@](#): > > I thought Varley should have made it for _Steel Beach_ or for the _Titan_ trilogy As I’ve mentioned before, _Titan_ was the book that changed my life, but I wouldn’t put it on this list. It isn’t all that good. If you want to pick Varley, you go with _The Persistance of Vision_, since the stories there were very influential. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/82 "2003-03-06T03:50:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*As I’ve mentioned before, _Titan_ was the book that changed my life, but I wouldn’t put it on this list. It isn’t all that good. If you want to pick Varley, you go with _The Persistance of Vision_, since the stories there were very influential. \*\* I loved the whole trilogy, but my favorite is probably **Wizard**. The 50 Foot Tall Marylin Monroe rampaging around the countryside molesting King Kong and wrestling with Sandworms has got to be one of the two or three most…um…odd yet memorable images ever written. That said, I’d agree: **Persistance of Vision** (and **The Barbie Murders** aka **Picnic on Nearside** ) are far more influential. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/83 "2003-03-06T03:52:49Z")
_Dying Inside_ is one of the best treatments of telepathy ever. Hey, what about _The Man Who Folded Himself_ by David Gerrold? Well, maybe in the “100 most significant” list. ---
**Author:** ![Improv\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b3f665/32.png) [@Improv\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improv_Geek)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/84 "2003-03-06T03:56:05Z")
Starship troopers? I didn’t care for it as much as some of Heinlein’s other books. I guess it could be for the impact it had but I don’t think it deserved top 50. Top 100 sure, but not top 50. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@ChrisM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisM)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/85 "2003-03-06T04:04:21Z")
I’ve read 36, plus parts of several others (the Shiras and the Wolfe.) The titles that gladden me most are _Cities in Flight_ by Blish, _Rogue Moon_ by Budrys, and _I am Legend_ by Matheson, which has to be one of my ten favorite books of all time. I can quibble more with what was left out than what is there, though for the life of me I can’t figure out why _The Sword of Shannara_ is on there, unless they’re blaming it for the deluge of fat fantasy that has descended upon us. I’m also unclear on why they picked _On the Beach_ rather than any of the far superior nuclear war novels they could have chosen. Hell, Pat Frank’s _Alas, Babylon_ would have been a better choice (unless that came out before 1953, and I’m too lazy to look it up right now.) ---
**Author:** ![Banger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/86 "2003-03-06T04:05:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baldwin \* > **I’d better clear this up – I was quoting myself, from my first post in this thread (about the list being in alphabetical order), and calling myself a fatuous jackass. Just a little self-deprecatory humor. I would never start throwing insults around at my fellow Straight Dopers like that.** If you persist in slinging derogatory comments towards yourself, I suggest you do so in the BBQ Pit. Thread locked. oh wait, I’m not a mod (and obviously for good reason) 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/87 "2003-03-06T04:25:17Z")
Now, are we talking about the best science fiction books, or the most important/influential on society, literature, etc? If we’re talking about influence overall, the without question _Stranger in a Strange Land_ is at the top of the list, and by a large margin. The book is partially responsible for the hippie culture and the changing social structure of the U.S. It was immensely popular in the '60’s. Heinlein’s “Starship Troopers” is still required reading at the Naval Acedemy in Annapolis, and it has been for something like 20 years. And you’ve got to give credit to Heinlein’s Juveniles, because they changed the SF marketplace. In particular, I think it was “Rocket Ship Galileo” that was serialized in LIFE magazine, and broke science fiction out of the pulps. ---
**Author:** ![Vanyel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@Vanyel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vanyel)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/88 "2003-03-06T04:32:55Z")
25 for me, but there are a number on there I’ve been meqaning to read for some time, so I maybe will, so…well, there isn’t really any point to that statement. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/89 "2003-03-06T04:59:50Z")
> [@](#): > > If we’re talking about influence overall, the without question Stranger in a Strange Land is at the top of the list, and by a large margin. The book is partially responsible for the hippie culture and the changing social structure of the U.S. It was immensely popular in the '60’s. As much as I admire Heinlein, Sam, this is poppycock. The hippies were coming anyway, and “hippie culture” owed at least as much to Kerouac et al. as it did to Heinlein. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/90 "2003-03-06T06:20:57Z")
1. My biggest quibble would have to be _The Left Hand of Darkness_ not making the top 10, while _Mists of Avalon_ could have been dumped down to the lower 40. I agree that _Shannara_ is a mistake, and they seem to have categorically decided that “influential” excludes anything written in the last ten years, except for _Harry Potter_. ---
**Author:** ![gorillacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@gorillacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gorillacus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/91 "2003-03-06T06:38:58Z")
scored a mighty 27. some real good stuff, some silly picks too. no Callahans? no Spider? where can I get a drink? OK there’s Adams. He respected booze. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/92 "2003-03-06T06:59:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > \*\*That and the fact that I doubt more than twelve people have actually read “Dhalgren”. \*\* I’ve read Dhalgren. Twice. It’s weird, all right, but I still found it easier going than, say, _Portrait of the Artist_ (which I found damned near uncomprehensible). I’ve read between 35 and 39 of the list–numbers 36-39 are ones I think I’ve read, but can’t remember if I have, or that I’ve read partially. How did they manage to miss Van Vogt? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/93 "2003-03-06T07:50:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Peyote Coyote \* > \*\*As much as I admire Heinlein, Sam, this is poppycock. The hippies were coming anyway, and “hippie culture” owed at least as much to Kerouac et al. as it did to Heinlein. \*\* Yeah, but can any of Kerouac’s works claim to be the inspiration for an invention? _Stranger_ is the source for the inspiration of the waterbed. Why no William S. Burroughs in the list? I’ve read about 16 or so of the books on the list and I’m not inclined to read some of the ones I’ve missed. I’m surprised that _A Scanner Darkly_ by Philip K. Dick isn’t on the list, one of his best works IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/94 "2003-03-06T08:24:45Z")
**Peyote Coyote:** I’m not claiming that Heinlein was responsible for the hippie culture all by himself, but SIASL was very influential. ‘Grok’ was a commonly used term in the 60’s, and there was a fad for a while of people having ‘water ceremonies’ and other artifacts from the book. The themes in SIASL (communal living, free love, self expression, distrust of authority) were powerful themes throughout the 60’s, and the book was published in 1961 and was considered very radical then. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/95 "2003-03-06T12:52:20Z")
Read 42 out of 50, and another couple are on my Unread Pile. How the blazes did Terry Brooks ever get near a list like this? I disagree with the inclusion of several of these, but the Brooks one is just _mystifying_. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/96 "2003-03-06T13:01:46Z")
I’ve read, or tried to read 38 of them. Some I just could not get through. I’ve read 15 of the top 16, missing #14. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/97 "2003-03-06T13:22:09Z")
I’ve read 10, which is honestly more than I even expected. Got a big To Do readling list which includes some others listed; we’ll see when I get to them… ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/98 "2003-03-06T14:14:26Z")
17, and I’m not counting my aborted attempt at reading _Covenant_. I got about as far as the rape in the first book, and gave up. Somethign that is exceedingly rare for me. I’ve got more reading to do though… Hey **Fenris** , what would you reccommend on the list? ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/99 "2003-03-06T14:42:47Z")
**RealityChuck** and **Fenris** re: Varley – I agree that _Persistance of Vision_ and _Barbie Murders_ are probably more representative of Varley’s work – that’s why I suggested _Steel Beach_ which I view as a novel length treatment of the same “universe” (as is _Ophiuchi Hotline_). While Varley certainly wasn’t the first to establish continuity between works, he did it well. Also, I think his vision of the future, especially in re: CC (the central computer) could be remarkably accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/100 "2003-03-06T14:55:30Z")
28-32, depending on how forgiving you are of me putting down a book halfway through, and how good my memory is for titles of things I read 15 years ago. The works that I think need to be on the list, but weren’t: A Song of Ice and Fire, by George R.R. Martin One of Robert Jordan’s craptacular works (we’re talking influential here, not worthy) The Stand, by Stephen King Red Mars, by Kim Stanley Robinson (which I loved, BTW) Less Heinlein Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233.md?page=6)