# The Most Significant SF & Fantasy Books of the Last 50 Years **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 5, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233 "2003-03-05T13:55:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/101 "2003-03-06T16:34:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > **Yeah, but can any of Kerouac’s works claim to be the inspiration for an invention? _Stranger_ is the source for the inspiration of the waterbed.** …snip… Actually it was for one of his short stories (“Sky Lift” I think) that he invented the waterbed. He used it again in SiaSL. He describes how he came to the idea in “Expanded Universe.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/102 "2003-03-06T17:47:02Z")
I was around for the 60s and as an 18-year-old college freshman I loved _Stranger_ and pushed it even on professors. (Then I turned 19…) But while hippies loved the book and it was part of the gestalt, there is no way _Stranger_ created the 60s, hippies, the love generation or anything else. It played about as significant a part as the psychedlic poster. ---
**Author:** ![Caenis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Caenis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caenis)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/103 "2003-03-06T19:48:46Z")
1. And I \hated\ Dhalgren. ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/104 "2003-03-06T21:11:51Z")
A shocking 25. I think it’s a fine list. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/105 "2003-03-06T21:49:49Z")
**Tars Tarkas** : > [@](#): > > How common is the terraforming subgenre? besides the movie for total recal, i can’t think of another real one. Surely you’re joking, Mr. Tarkas. Off the top of my head, I can think of [The Greening of Mars](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312350244/qid=1046985986/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-5908100-6048725?v=glance&s=books), [Genesis: An Epic Poem](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0933071264/qid=1046987117/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-5908100-6048725?v=glance&s=books) by Frederick Turner and [Venus of Dreams](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553250574/ref=pd_sim_books_2/104-5908100-6048725?v=glance&s=books) and its sequels by Pamela Sargent. To say nothing of the many other books on [this list](http://www.scifan.com/themes/themes.asp?TH_themeid=48). I don’t even count _Total Recall;_ the “terraforming” in that story didn’t even really happen. It was a false memory. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/106 "2003-03-06T22:06:01Z")
Just to clear up a long-standing UL; Heinlein may have been a great SF author but he didn’t invent the waterbed. The idea goes back several centuries, although until the last few decades they were considered eccentric luxuries. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/107 "2003-03-06T22:36:00Z")
Before electricity, how were waterbeds kept warm? I owned a waterbed once, and if I turned off the heater the mattress wicked away my body heat like nobody’s business. I can’t imagine that ever being comfortable. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/108 "2003-03-06T22:37:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > \*\*Just to clear up a long-standing UL; Heinlein may have been a great SF author but he didn’t invent the waterbed. The idea goes back several centuries, although until the last few decades they were considered eccentric luxuries. \*\* Really? Plastic has been around several centuries??? Do you have documentation? Heinlein says (in Expanded Universe) that the guy who started InnerSleep (the first waterbed chain, as I remember) sent one to RAH thanking him for the idea. I suppose geosynchronous communication satellites (which Clarke invented for a story) are an old idea as well? 🙂 To get back on track: Does anyone else have F/SF Best Of lists that might better represent the best the field has to offer? ---
**Author:** ![MusicJunkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@MusicJunkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicJunkie)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/109 "2003-03-06T22:55:50Z")
27 whoopee! ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/110 "2003-03-06T23:09:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tristan \* > \*\*Hey **Fenris** , what would you reccommend on the list? \*\* My top ten _from the list_\* (in no particular order) to recommend (balancing importance and fun-to-read-ness) would be: **The Lord of the Rings, J.R.R. Tolkien** --THE seminal work in modern Fantasy **The Caves of Steel, Isaac Asimov** --One of the first SF mysteries…and one of the few books where Asimov has characters to care about. **The Demolished Man, Alfred Bester** –Another early SF mystery. And a rocking good story **The Foundation Trilogy–Isaac Asimov** –Big, important and lotsa fun. The fourth book isn’t bad, but all later books are so bad that they retroactively stink up the original trilogy. If you want to read more in the Foundation Universe after the original three, read Donald Kingsbury’s unauthorized sequel **Psychohistorical Crisis** , which picks up after the 1000 year plan has ended and, unlike every book past the original three, doesn’t butcher the original stories to do it. **Ender’s Game, Orson Scott Card** – A great story, slightly marred by a weinie, cop-out, “Moral issues are haaaaaard! I’ll ignore 'em and maybe they’ll go away” ending. Despite that, it’s so much fun the rest of the way through. The four sequels that start with **Speaker for the Dead** are, IMO atrocious and should be avoided at all costs, but the sequels (two different, unrelated sets of sequels spin out of the original book) that start with **Ender’s Shadow** are excellent (I haven’t read the final book yet, though) \*\*The Forever War, Joe Haldeman \*\*-A damned fine rebuttal to **Starship Troopers**. Read **Starship Troopers** first, though. What’s nice is that he’s able to tell a damn fine story and at the same time, rebutt Heinlein’s story. Apparently the year Haldeman won the Hugo for FW, Heinlein was at the same Worldcon and everyone thought that Heinlein would pop Haldeman in the nose. When they finally met up, Heinlein shook Haldeman’s hand and complimented him on the story and his debate skill. Haldeman spent the rest of the convention walking on air. (So much for Alexi Panshin’s “theory” that Heinlein couldn’t stand people who disagreed) \*\*Gateway, Frederik Pohl \*\* A great story of BIG events that never loses sight of the humans at the heart of the story. And Gateway asteroid is a _cool_ concept. \*\*Rendezvous with Rama, Arthur C. Clarke \*\*–Nothing happens, but in a fantastic way: Alien artifact shows up and we look around. A travelogue. But one of the best travelogue ever. Clarke’s best work ever, IMO. Avoid the sequels as they’re “Gouge your eyes out to erase the memory” bad. \*\*Ringworld, Larry Niven \*\*–Another travelogue, not quite as good as **Rama** ( **Rama** was SO atmospheric), but with more cool _ideas_ (I _loved_ the Teela Gene, starseed lures, tree-of-life and the Pak Protecters, skrith, the tasp, etc.). Better if read _after_ Niven’s other Known Space stuff. \*\*Starship Troopers, Robert A. Heinlein \*\*– **Stranger** is more important in general, but **Starship** is more important to Science Fiction. Given that it’s name, 40 years later, _still_ starts flame-fests…(But I’d still choose either **The Past Through Tomorrow** or **Moon is a Harsh Misteress** if limited to one Heinlein and not bound by the original list) Almosts, but not quite/Honorable Mentions \*\*Mission of Gravity, Hal Clement \*\*-THE hard SF writer for decades. He wrote Hard SF before there _was_ Hard SF. But I just didn’t _like_ **MoG**. If they’d have picked **Needle** or **Iceworld** , it would have made the top ten. \*\*Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury \*\*–Compentent, but preachy and didactic. Burning books is BAD. Yes. I geddit. :rolleyes: One of Bradbury’s short fiction collections (maybe **R is for Rocket** , **S is for Space** or **The October Country** ) woud have been a far better choice. \*\*The Rediscovery of Man, Cordwainer Smith \*\*–On the other hand…I’d have picked **Norstrallia** (sp), Smith’s novel, rather than his short fiction. \*\*The Colour of Magic, Terry Pratchett \*\*–Pratchett, yes. This Pratchett? No. Ham-handed parodies with only a glimmer of the subtle, yet gut-busting wit and humor to come. I’d have picked **Small Gods** for a favorite stand-alone Pratchett novel. \*\*Stormbringer, Michael Moorcock \*\*–I don’t know how effective **Stormbringer** would be without reading **Elric of Melnibone** first. As a pair, I’d recommend 'em. **Stormbringer** alone? I dunno. **Children of the Atom, Wilmar Shiras** –I’ve got a soft spot for this one. It’s 5(?) connected short stories and objectively, only the first story is really good. But there’s a charm even to the clunky badness of the 3 middle stories (including the one where a character deduces _correctly!!!_ that another character is psychotic from the fact that the “psychotic” character has said that there’s a cost to having children and believes that (horrors!) family planning is a good idea.) and the fifth story solves resolves the whole “Hated and feared by a world they’ve sworn to protect” problem quite nicely and believably\*\* (and somehow the X-Men, after 40 years, _still_ haven’t figured out the obvious solution.) Fenris \*I’d choose some others if not restricted to the list \*\* The solution to both **Children of the Atom** and X-Men?Come out of the closet. Integrate. It’s hard to fear someone you have lunch with every day. Hiding in a ghetto leads to alienation. In the book the kids close down the school where they hide and can remain objects of fear and rejoin society. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/111 "2003-03-07T04:42:01Z")
Re: “The solution to both Children of the Atom and X-Men?” Gee, that’s dramatic. I bet it would sell millions! 🙂 You - and other places I’ve read - say that _Children of the Atom_ influenced the creation of X-Men. Stan Lee doesn’t say this in his new autobiography (I can’t find my copy, but I’m positive I would have remembered this) and I can’t imagine why he would need to have read this worthless waste of printer’s ink to create the X-Men. What is everybody’s source for this claim? Or is it retro from their latterly do a Children of the Atom titled story? ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/112 "2003-03-07T06:19:26Z")
9 of the top 10, 30 overall. Definitely needs some Poul Anderson. I agree with Fenris that Henderson’s “People” should be on there also. And where is Andre Norton? And there should be more Zelazny. **Doorways in the Sand** and the _Amber_ books (well, the first set anyway) should be on there. More Sturgeon also. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/113 "2003-03-07T06:47:30Z")
I love Doorways In the Sand. It’s my favorite Zelazny, not that I’ve read all that much. But I don’t see how it’s very influential or trend-setting. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/114 "2003-03-07T07:07:48Z")
**Fenris** - And others, of course. I have some reading to do, it would appear. I’ve read a ton of Heinlein, and just about everything by Niven, and a smattering of the other stuff. I haven’t read any Bester in years… I think my generation may end up putting good SF in a coma for a while. I think I have to pay my library fines… ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/115 "2003-03-07T10:34:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\*I love Doorways In the Sand. It’s my favorite Zelazny, not that I’ve read all that much. > > But I don’t see how it’s very influential or trend-setting. \*\* Who cares how trend setting it was. It is my favorite Zelazny! 😃 And it is a wonderful showcase of Zelazny’s writing ability. How many writers are there that can write a book where the chapters are a flashback telling how the character got into the position he is in at the start of the chapter? In first person? And I have to disagree with Fenris, I would pick **The Stars, My Destination** over **The Demolished Man** by Bester. Gully Foyle is one of my favorite characters in SF for some reason. Where was Gordon Dickson? or Fredric Brown? or Mike Resnick? or David Drake? The list is just too short. Can’t fit everyone on it. 😛 Lok ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/116 "2003-03-07T10:57:53Z")
Well, if I’d probably be willing to make room for the Amber series ( the first one, as a set, or even just Nine Princes in Amber ) to represent Zelazny’s fantasy output - That truly was an important body of work. We can make room by tossing Brooks. But I think Lord of Light really is the definitive Zelazny for the SF side of things and more than that for a list this size is probably excessive. Much as I like Doorways in the Sand :). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2003, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/117 "2003-03-07T11:29:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*What is everybody’s source for this claim? Or is it retro from their latterly do a Children of the Atom titled story? \*\* Just the timing, the feel of the first story (“In Hiding”), the use of a school for gifted youngsters as a cover, and other little bits and pieces. No hard evidence though on my part. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![mercaptan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/898d66/32.png) [@mercaptan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mercaptan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/118 "2003-03-08T13:14:07Z")
19 here. I have read most of Heinlein and Pratchett, just not those specific two. (And I also vote for Small Gods for the best single Pratchett.) Also, didn’t read the specific Cordwainer Smith, but “The Ballad of Lost C’mell” is a favorite of mine. For Poul Anderson, I would vote for “Tau Zero.” ---
**Author:** ![Ave\_Minerva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@Ave\_Minerva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ave_Minerva)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/119 "2003-03-08T14:31:49Z")
1. I would have added PKD’s Valis. ---
**Author:** ![buckyogi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f17d59/32.png) [@buckyogi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckyogi)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233/120 "2003-03-08T15:08:24Z")
23 and parts of the two Ellison compilations. Without running to the library to double check, it appears the last book on the list to be published (except for Rowling, and maybe the final volumes of some of the series) was _Neuromancer_, in 1984. So the last (almost) 20 years have produced nothing of significance? It seems to me there should be more cyberpunk titles here, if for no other reason than their impact on gaming. And I don’t care how “significant” _Harry Potter_ is, it doesn’t belong on this list. Is “Joe Millionaire” significant television just because it is popular? Wait, _Snow Crash_ is probably later than 1984. So the best they could come up with since _Neuromancer_ was _Potter_ and _Crash_?. \ What about all those wonderful “Star Trek” novels? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-significant-sf-fantasy-books-of-the-last-50-years/159233.md?page=7)