# The most useful or revolutionary invention you \*personally\* can bring back in time to the primitives **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 15, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257 "2013-01-15T03:56:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/61 "2013-01-17T08:09:51Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I’m gonna go Warren Zevon on this. Lawyers, guns and money. > > Rule of law is a great concept. Hard to get the local despot to replace himself with it through. > > 1911, or Mr. Browning’s 8 persuasive points. > > Money. Banking. That is fiat money on the hindu-arabic decimal system. Green gold. Thurston Howell III’s universal language. > > I think money is the one that would be most helpful to older civilizations and least likely to get me killed as a trouble maker. 😕 So you personally will do . . . what exactly? Drawing on nothing but your own memory and your powers of persuasion, introduce both arabic numerals and fiat currency in the space of one year, with results immediately forthcoming? Implementation details, please. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/62 "2013-01-17T13:12:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Most of the best ideas here were already covered in the seminal work “Lest Darkness fall”. One of the things I love about that book is the way Martin Padway does NOT “invent” gunpowder, despite his persistence in re-inventing paper and other crafts. I strongly suspect that most people, trying to come up with it, won’t get it to work. Getting sulfer isn’t as easy as it sounds, and I suspect most people will end up producing something other than what threy intend when they try to get sodium or potassium nitrate. And, of course, the proportions (which are nowheree near equal) have to be correct. I had friends who tried to make gunpowder from scratch back in high school. They failed miserably. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/63 "2013-01-17T13:34:00Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > One of the things I love about that book is the way Martin Padway does NOT “invent” gunpowder, despite his persistence in re-inventing paper and other crafts. I strongly suspect that most people, trying to come up with it, won’t get it to work. Getting sulfer isn’t as easy as it sounds, and I suspect most people will end up producing something other than what threy intend when they try to get sodium or potassium nitrate. And, of course, the proportions (which are nowheree near equal) have to be correct. > > I had friends who tried to make gunpowder from scratch back in high school. They failed miserably. Hence part of the superiority of nitrocellulose. You only need equal parts sulphuric and nitric acids (or oil of vitriol and aqua fortis, to the alchemist) and relatively pure cellulose (like cotton balls), no fiddly relative proportions (although even if you did need proportions, I’d think my rusty stoichiometry is still good enough to get there over a whole year!) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/64 "2013-01-17T15:04:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [Vitriol](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfuric_acid#History) + saltpetre. I found that last night. Yes, it can be done. But I’d make gunpowder first. It will be much more difficult to gather the materials for making nitric acid and then producing nitrocellulose. Using more readily available materials I could make potassium nitrate, then gunpowder and simple weapons. Following that it should be much easier to convince someone to expend the resources to make nitric acid and then nitrocellulose. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/65 "2013-01-17T15:33:03Z")
> [@MegaBee](#): > > IIRC, they knew about the steam engine in ancient Greece, but it wasn’t useful as more than a novelty. I’ve seen the [Aeolipile](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile) but I talking about building a piston steam engine. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/66 "2013-01-17T16:16:39Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > The scientific method. What I came in to post. A time traveller has discovered scientific theory for your civilisation! They could then develop biology and steam power. For Rome, the stirrup. Its benefits to the Roman equites will soon become obvious. For the Middle Ages, probably modern knowledge of sanitation, medicine and nutrition. What about cartography? I’m fairly sure I could sketch out an accurate map of the globe (better than [Ptolemy](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/PtolemyWorldMap.jpg) at least). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/67 "2013-01-17T16:21:52Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > 😕 So you personally will do . . . what exactly? Drawing on nothing but your own memory and your powers of persuasion, introduce both arabic numerals and fiat currency in the space of one year, with results immediately forthcoming? Implementation details, please. Well, per the OP, I can’t bring an item, just my knowledge. I’m gonna arrive like Arnold in the Terminator movies. Now why that can’t include a 1911 to help me persuade seems a bit harsh. Let’s face it, Arnold was a machine 100 times the size. But, what the hey. Yes. My own powers of persuasion. Which are damn fine. So I’m bringing lawyers, puns and money. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/68 "2013-01-17T17:13:52Z")
I need details of implementation here. Let’s say you head back to medieval Germany England to teach people to wash their hands before doing medical procedures. Let’s say you even get a head start by being a doctor. First, you have to attract patients and build a practice, all while supporting yourself and keeping your house, which in medieval times was a pain in the butt even if you weren’t a quack who was always spouting off about their bizarre obsession with water. Then comes your practice. To begin with, you are going to need to clean your water since medieval water supplies were almost certainly filthy, and that probably means boiling it. Boiling water takes a lot of energy, so now you are spending a solid chunk of cash on wood. Heck, getting all of that water is probably an issue, and you’ll need to pay someone to be constantly going to the well or fountain. With these extra costs, our practice is going to have to be much more expensive than the surrounding practices, which is going to cut into your patient load. Not to mention that it will be smoky and unpleasant. So you are washing your hands, you should see outstanding improvements in your patients, right? I’d guess probably not. At this point, so much shit is getting people sick that eliminating one vector may not be making a particularly noticeable improvement. Your patients are still going to be dropping like flies. People may even agree that there is something to your hand washing thing, but given the conditions it may not be considered a priority. Good ideas are a dime a dozen. It’s all about implementation. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/69 "2013-01-17T17:28:54Z")
> [@FlyByNight512](#): > > Penicillin was more or less plucked out of thin air. Good luck finding the exact same mold in the wild, let alone building a laboratory that can properly evaluate the antibiotic properties of anything. It’s possible, but I’d be surprised if you could do it in a year. > > Personally, I have a half-decent idea of how a spinning jenny works. I’d like to have more time to study up on it before going, but given the assistance of several master woodworkers and metalsmiths, I’ll bet we could build something workable. It was the machine that more or less kicked off the industrial revolution, as spinning thread was by far the most time consuming part of producing cloth. > > I just hope the reigning despot would LISTEN when I warn them about the hazards of the industrial revolution that we had to learn the hard way. Factory safety: not optional. While it wasn’t known as penicillin back then, it was known for [quite a while](http://explorable.com/history-of-antibiotics.html) (ancient Greece, around the same time as the Romans), that moldy bread and even soil could treat infections, the caveat of course being that the mold wasn’t always the right kind; then again, there is no reason why they could save and propagate the mold once they found some that was effective (penicillin also kills off any competing molds or bacteria, the reason in the first place it produces antibiotics). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/70 "2013-01-17T17:29:43Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Good ideas are a dime a dozen. It’s all about implementation. That’s why I’d go with gunpowder. Easy to implement. You need some cloth and a metal pot, and the rest of the materials you could gather for yourself (sulfer may not be easy to find depending on when and where you are, but you could leave it out to make a mixture which will demonstrate your point). Once you can demonstrate an ability to do something useful, you can introduce all sorts of more complex technologies and you won’t have the big problem of convincing others to provide you with resources. ---
**Author:** ![FlyByNight512](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@FlyByNight512](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyByNight512)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/71 "2013-01-17T19:24:31Z")
> [@Michael63129](#): > > While it wasn’t known as penicillin back then, it was known for [quite a while](http://explorable.com/history-of-antibiotics.html) (ancient Greece, around the same time as the Romans), that moldy bread and even soil could treat infections, the caveat of course being that the mold wasn’t always the right kind; then again, there is no reason why they could save and propagate the mold once they found some that was effective (penicillin also kills off any competing molds or bacteria, the reason in the first place it produces antibiotics). Interesting, I didn’t know that. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/72 "2013-01-18T08:43:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I found that last night. Yes, it can be done. But I’d make gunpowder first. It will be much more difficult to gather the materials for making nitric acid and then producing nitrocellulose. The base ingredients are \*the exact same \*- sulphur and saltpetre (no carbon needed so actually simpler, in fact). Sulphur + saltpetre -\> sulphuric acid. Sulphuric acid + saltpetre -\> Nitric acid. But anyway, the OP said: “Any material or resource that can reasonably be found within that era and that time frame will be provided to you” and aqua fortis as-is is a reasonable resource for the Middle Ages. For Rome, you’d need to make your own, but you have a whole year. I contend that guncotton is a better use of one’s time than gunpowder - 4 times the power, for less than 4 times the effort. I admit it’s more of a win in the Middle Ages scenario than the Roman one because they will already be familiar with gunpowder, so the idea of superior guns, cannons and rock blasting would be more obvious to them from the get-go. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/73 "2013-01-18T08:45:44Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > you won’t have the big problem of convincing others to provide you with resources. That’s kind of akin to fighting the hypothetical - the OP specifies that you get available resources for the asking. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/74 "2013-01-18T09:10:48Z")
Regarding penicillin - I suspect it’s a non-starter due to time constraints and difficulties in implementation. It took about 3 years for Florey and his team to develop the strain discovered by Fleming into a useable medication - this was using state-of-the-art technology (for the 1940s), a team of specialists well-trained in their fields, and the significant incentive that it would be _enormously_ useful to the ongoing war effort. This is probably also the reason why penicillin lay more or less “fallow” from its original discovery in 1917 for more than twenty years. It was just a bitch to work with. So while you may be able to get _some_ use out of it in an “occasionally mouldy bread is kind of useful but we can’t predict exactly when” kind of way, you certainly wouldn’t get anything like modern effectiveness out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/75 "2013-01-18T09:53:33Z")
A phased plasma rifle in a 40 watt range. Failing that, teaching people that contracting Cowpox will make them immune to Smallpox might be relatively easy to implement ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/76 "2013-01-18T09:54:41Z")
Not to derail the thread, but since there are some people knowledgeable about this here – why do I never see penicillin these days? I can’t recall ever being prescribed penicillin for an infection, nor have I heard of anyone else doing so either. The go-to antibiotic for everyone in my family always seems to be amoxicillin. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/77 "2013-01-18T14:00:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s kind of akin to fighting the hypothetical - the OP specifies that you get available resources for the asking. Ok, I wasn’t paying attention. I concur with your opinion, nitrocellulose it is. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/78 "2013-01-19T02:41:15Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Not to derail the thread, but since there are some people knowledgeable about this here – why do I never see penicillin these days? I can’t recall ever being prescribed penicillin for an infection, nor have I heard of anyone else doing so either. The go-to antibiotic for everyone in my family always seems to be amoxicillin. [Amoxicillin](http://www.cyto.purdue.edu/cdroms/cyto2/17/chmrx/penems.htm) is a derivative (semi-synthetic, modified form of natural penicillin) of penicillin which is more effective than the original penicillin, which is mainly effective against gram-positive bacteria while amoxicillin targets gram-negative bacteria as well (or is more effective). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/79 "2013-01-19T04:57:41Z")
If I can choose a different area, I’ll take basic metallurgy to the North American Natives of the Northern Minnesota and Michigan area. There’s enough Iron, Copper, Lead and the like in this area to build an empire. (Northern Minnesota still produces something like 80-90% of US output of Iron) Since I already know how to make gunpowder and about basic sanitation, how to make paper, those come along for the ride. Being since the Paper Birch is native to the area, won’t be much of a problem on that end. If I can avoid the whole being killed thing, or dying of a disease, I can build a Kingdom that will echo through the ages. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257/80 "2013-01-19T07:04:53Z")
A 1920s-style death ray. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-most-useful-or-revolutionary-invention-you-personally-can-bring-back-in-time-to-the-primitives/647257.md?page=3)