# The mother of Jihad goes on trial in France **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 23, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768 "2013-03-23T21:25:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/21 "2013-03-24T16:53:00Z")
You have got to be kidding me. Do normal people in France put a kids name _and birthdate_ on the back of a t-shirt? I’m not sure if the parents should be arrested for the t-shirt, but I really do not buy this “innocent” act, especially from the uncle who had the name and birthdate added to the shirt. This reminds me of that poor kid who could not get a birthday cake with his first and middle names on it: “Adolf Hitler”. If I were a kid named “Jihad”, born on September 11, I certainly would not want that fact plastered upon my back! The kids in little Adolf Hitler’s family were eventually taken from their parents. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/22 "2013-03-24T17:04:07Z")
Well, it’s definitely not as unsubtle as naming one’s kid Adolf Hitler; at least there’s some chance of plausible deniability. I do think they were fully aware of the implications, whether it was done because they’re true believers making a statement or because they thought it would be funny. Given the long, rich tradition of Moroccan-French Muslim comedy in the world, it’s really a toss-up. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/23 "2013-03-24T17:05:27Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I can’t believe they allowed her to name the kid Jihad! “Allowed her”? Is there a requirement that a child’s name be approved? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/24 "2013-03-24T17:36:01Z")
> [@Tamex](#): > > You have got to be kidding me. Do normal people in France put a kids name _and birthdate_ on the back of a t-shirt? The shirt was bought for the kids birthday. Not an unusual gift in that case (the idea usually being that since the kids goong to grow out of it in a few months anyways, mom can keep the shirt tonremember the day). Plus, it is in fact the kids name and birthdate. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/25 "2013-03-24T18:44:01Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > “Allowed her”? Is there a requirement that a child’s name be approved? Apparently in some places, [yes](http://mentalfloss.com/article/25034/8-countries-fascinating-baby-naming-laws). ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/26 "2013-03-24T19:17:46Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The shirt was bought for the kids birthday. Not an unusual gift in that case (the idea usually being that since the kids goong to grow out of it in a few months anyways, mom can keep the shirt tonremember the day). > > Plus, it is in fact the kids name and birthdate. :dubious: It just seems highly unusual to me. As I said, perhaps it’s common in France to put birth dates on shirts, but given what happened, I’d guess it isn’t. This is more like a kid named Jesus who was born December 25. I could see some uncle making a cute shirt with that. But it would be to point out the connection between the birthdate and the name. I still think that’s what was being done here. (And the “bomb” reference on the front is just the icing on the cake!) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/27 "2013-03-24T19:20:28Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > a•pol•o•gy > 2. a. A defense or justification of a cause or doctrine. > 2. a. A formal justification or defense. > > [Latin apologia, from Greek apologi : apo-, apo- + logos, speech; see leg- in Indo-European roots.] > Synonyms: apology, apologia, defense, justification > These nouns denote a statement that excuses or defends something, such as a past action or a policy: arguments that constituted an apology for capital punishment; published an apologia expounding her version of the events; a defense based on ignorance of the circumstances; an untenable justification for police brutality. > > The meaning is shared in English, French and Spanish. That may be the formal meaning, but it’s not what most people understand when saying “apology”: people understand it as saying “I’m sorry I screwed up”, not as saying “I’m not sorry at all, my actions were perfectly correct and if you got hurt it’s your problem” - which is the second meaning you gave and the way it’s used by the law. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/28 "2013-03-24T19:42:35Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That may be the formal meaning, but it’s not what most people understand when saying “apology”: people understand it as saying “I’m sorry I screwed up”, not as saying “I’m not sorry at all, my actions were perfectly correct and if you got hurt it’s your problem” - which is the second meaning you gave and the way it’s used by the law. The idea that the charge meant “saying I’m sorry for a crime” never even entered my mind. Words can have different meanings based on context. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/29 "2013-03-24T20:38:01Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That may be the formal meaning, but it’s not what most people understand when saying “apology” So the French are really so rude that it is indeed a crime to apologize in France. > [@Nava](#): > > That may be the formal meaning, but it’s not what most people understand when saying “apology” Your argument is with the dictionary, not with me. > [@](#): > > a·pol·o·gist (-pl-jst) n. > A person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution. > a person who offers a defence by argument > a person who defends an idea, faith, cause, or institution. [1630–40] [http://www.apologetics315.com/2009/06/100-christian-apologists.html](http://www.apologetics315.com/2009/06/100-christian-apologists.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/30 "2013-03-24T21:22:38Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I don’t know whether a person in France would naturally put together “Jihad,” “9-11,” and “Bomb” to think of the WTC attacks in the way that an American likely would. > [@Simplicio](#): > > The connection between the word and the terrorist attacks isn’t as strong in Arabic speaking countries as it is in the US. Are you serious?! Maybe this is just me once again overestimating how familiar the average person is with terrorism and national security, but France is a front line in the Muslim/Western conflict. They’re in a war right now, in fact, against Islamic militants in Mali. They had a huge dust-up a few years back about banning the burka in public. They have all kinds of anti-Muslim political parties. Barely a year ago, a Islamic terrorist shot 8 people in southern France. Just yesterday, AQIM beheaded French hostages. You’d better believe the French know what Jihad and 9-11 are. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/31 "2013-03-24T22:08:07Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > You’d better believe the French know what Jihad and 9-11 are. France isn’t an “Arabic speaking country”. No one said the French don’t know what 9-11 and Jyhad are. You should read peoples posts more carefully before responding to them. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/32 "2013-03-25T03:27:45Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Are you serious?! Maybe this is just me once again overestimating how familiar the average person is with terrorism and national security, but France is a front line in the Muslim/Western conflict. They’re in a war right now, in fact, against Islamic militants in Mali. They had a huge dust-up a few years back about banning the burka in public. They have all kinds of anti-Muslim political parties. Barely a year ago, a Islamic terrorist shot 8 people in southern France. Just yesterday, AQIM beheaded French hostages. > > You’d better believe the French know what Jihad and 9-11 are. I was thinking by analogy of how few Americans probably know the dates of the bombings in London or Madrid, let alone would recognize those dates on a shirt. Maybe 9-11 is better known worldwide, but maybe that’s an American-centric point of view. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Jihad isn’t necessarily a bad thing. In most interpretations, it refers to an internal “struggle” to become a better person. Like a German mother naming her child “Kampf,” then. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768/33 "2013-03-25T03:40:24Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I was thinking by analogy of how few Americans probably know the dates of the bombings in London or Madrid, let alone would recognize those dates on a shirt. Maybe 9-11 is better known worldwide, but maybe that’s an American-centric point of view. I was going to say, if the kid was born in 3-11, I suspect Spaniards would be freaking out while Americans would be wondering what the fuss is about. The date of the WTC attacks are certainly known globally, but they don’t have the same immediate resonance as they do for Americans, who spent most of a decade with the media treating the attacks as the most important event in human history. Plus the kid was actually born on September 11th, as approximately 20 million other people have been, for reason that have nothing to do with terrorist plots. Whatever the average French-Morrocan associates with the date, I suspect the mother in question primarily thinks of it as her sons birthday. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mother-of-jihad-goes-on-trial-in-france/653768.md?page=1)