# The mother's day conundrum **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370 "2009-05-05T00:48:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/41 "2009-05-06T00:46:59Z")
Went to Target to buy the Mother’s day card for the wife unit, and I noticed that they had Mother’s day cards for Grandmothers. I guess that pretty much settles **that**. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/42 "2009-05-06T00:50:49Z")
**Scylla** , does the hypothetical Scylla have a mother-in-law in this scenario? If so, how does the hypothetical Mrs. Scylla handle the issue of her own mother on M-Day? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/43 "2009-05-06T01:08:16Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > **Scylla** , does the hypothetical Scylla have a mother-in-law in this scenario? If so, how does the hypothetical Mrs. Scylla handle the issue of her own mother on M-Day? Of all the foolhardy and dangerous things I could possibly do, none would be more foolhardy or dangerous than to inquire about the relationship between my wife and her mother in even the smallest most seemingly innocuous way. Unless you are Kwiswatz Haderach there are some place you just don’t go. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/44 "2009-05-06T01:53:23Z")
Wrong. You gift your mother on Mother’s Day. You help your children gift their mother on Mother’s Day. You email Happy Mother’s Day to every other female in your family that has ever raised, born, or conceived a child … unless it’s a painful reminder. And only the current president is addressed as “Mr. President”. George Washington set that precedent, and I think he had the right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/45 "2009-05-06T01:58:20Z")
Washington set the precedent of refusing any sort of honorific embellishments, as in, “Your Holiness”, “Your Excellency”, “Defendant”, so on and so forth. He accepted the title of “Mr. President” as being appropriate for the elected leader of a democracy, but I don’t think it was his idea. And, IIRC, it is considered quite good form to refer to a previous President as “Mr. President”. Other than that, spot on. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/46 "2009-05-06T15:14:40Z")
Thanks, Scylla! Threads like this are what remind me to stop thinking too hard (out loud, at least) about hypothetical entitlement situations, lest I am killed (most deservedly!) by my loved ones. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/47 "2009-05-06T17:19:17Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Scylla’s" Mother maintains that he actually has a fourth obligation. To her. > > Clearly, the women is in error. She is not a Mother. She is a Grandmother. She is not currently providing mothering services to anybody. She has been retired from the mothering racket for 20 years. If she is nagging and making you feel guilty, then by golly she is being a mother. Regards, Shodan who’s life expectancy is shrinking rapidly because he didn’t make brunch reservations soon enough and is hoping Perkin’s will do ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/48 "2009-05-06T23:24:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Washington set the precedent of refusing any sort of honorific embellishments, as in, “Your Holiness”, “Your Excellency”, “Defendant”, so on and so forth. He accepted the title of “Mr. President” as being appropriate for the elected leader of a democracy, but I don’t think it was his idea. > > And, IIRC, it is considered quite good form to refer to a previous President as “Mr. President”. > > Other than that, spot on. After Washington served his terms and retired, he elected to be addressed as ‘General’ (the former highest title he held). Former presidents are occasionally **referred to** as ‘President’, during discussion of their term(s) in office (the ‘then’ being understood). However, only the current president is **addressed as** ‘Mister President’ or ‘Madam President’. (And on Mother’s Day, you can bet Madam President’s grown children are going to give her a present.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/49 "2009-05-07T00:56:05Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > “Your gift this Mother’s Day is the fact that I did not kill you off like [the Menendez brothers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menendez_brothers) did to their mom. Please do not spend my inheritence so that I’m able to show the same mercy next year. – Happy Mom’s Day” Now you’re making me sad. Those boys owned a very nice little place in Princeton I used to go to, which sold excellent Buffalo Wings. It was never the same after they got busted. I wish “Scylla” would let me know how his mother managed to end mothering services. My wife is still providing them to eldest daughter, 4 years out of college, married, and living on the other coast. Luckily for me my wife hates Mothers Day. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/50 "2009-05-07T01:26:37Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Went to Target to buy the Mother’s day card for the wife unit, and I noticed that they had Mother’s day cards for Grandmothers. > > I guess that pretty much settles **that**. 😕 Is this a woosh? Your mileage obviously varies, because I cannot fathom celebrating something like Mother’s Day and not including your mom (whatever age), your grandmother (whatever age), and your aunts (whatever age). And if your cousins or in-laws are mothers too, you damn well also recognize them. I mean, if you’re already going to observe that day, might as well include all female relatives who’ve had a say in your formation. And now I hope I don’t forget to call them in their day. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/51 "2009-05-07T02:35:36Z")
“Scylla” seems to overlook his _fifth_ obligation on Mother’s Day: to give appropriate recognition to his wife for being the mother of their offspring. “Scylla” may believe, as most men do, that this “obligation” is completely silly, as his wife was never _his_ mother, and the proper day to give appropriate recognition to a wife is on one’s wedding anniversary. It does not matter. “Scylla” will find himself sleeping on the couch if he does not provide his wife with at least a token Mother’s Day gift. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/52 "2009-05-07T03:29:42Z")
I assumed that buying something for his wife from himself was his third obligation, since there are apparently only two kids. Now _that_ I don’t really hold with. Buy something nice and say it’s from the 2-month old baby, sure, but it seems overkill to buy your wife a Mother’s Day gift from yourself on top of the kid’s stuff and the Christmas, birthday, and anniversary gifts. But as for the thing about Granny getting Mother’s Day stuff…well, of course she does. She’s your mom, always, no matter what she is to anyone else. She did a lot of shit for you over the years, and would do a lot more shit for you now if you wanted or needed her to. If that isn’t worth a $3 card and a phone call…geez. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/53 "2009-05-07T03:45:10Z")
“Scylla’s” _kids_ can give her the Grandmother’s card; “Scylla” himself should give her a card for mothers. - from another motherless daughter who would love, _love_, _ **love** _ to have such a weighty conundrum as the 22nd Mother’s Day without her mom looms ahead. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/54 "2009-05-07T17:59:53Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > 😕 Is this a woosh? > > Your mileage obviously varies, because I cannot fathom celebrating something like Mother’s Day and not including your mom (whatever age), your grandmother (whatever age), and your aunts (whatever age). And if your cousins or in-laws are mothers too, you damn well also recognize them. > > I mean, if you’re already going to observe that day, might as well include all female relatives who’ve had a say in your formation. > > And now I hope I don’t forget to call them in their day. I never have celebrated my grandmothers, aunts, or cousins who are mothers - and I would never celebrated a child of mine who was a mother either, if such came to pass. It’s called Mother’s Day, and so on it I celebrate my mother. If I had a kid, I would assist them in celebrating _their_ mother - at least until they’re old enough to handle it themselves. And if I had a wife, I would not feel compelled to celebrate her (as she’s not _my_ mother) - though if the wife cared she could probably talk me into acting it out on her behalf because I expect I’d be pretty pliable regarding things that my wife cares about and I don’t. I don’t think it follows that mother’s day should be treated as “women who are related to you’s day”. I’ll of course concede it for the one grandmother or aunt that substantially raised you and was your mother figure, if such occured, but otherwise it’s not really their day, is it? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/55 "2009-05-07T18:39:44Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > AClearly, the women is in error. She is not a Mother. She is a Grandmother. She is not currently providing mothering services to anybody. She has been retired from the mothering racket for 20 years. Sorry, but wholly wrong. \*\*The Mother’s Day obligation is discharged only by the death of either party. \*\* Furthermore, the grandchildren in the hypothetical should also provide Mother’s Day cards and gifts (of trivial value, if desired) to their grandmother. So this hypothetical “Scylla” has six obligations, not three. So it has been since the day’s inception, and so shall it always be, forever and ever, amen. As to other relationships (e.g. having children who are themselves mothers) this obligation may vary from family to family; in mine, parents celebrate the mother/father status of their children as well, but I can see the logic behind a more stingy approach. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/56 "2009-05-07T20:04:35Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I never have celebrated my grandmothers, aunts, or cousins who are mothers - and I would never celebrated a child of mine who was a mother either, if such came to pass. It’s called Mother’s Day, and so on it I celebrate my mother. If I had a kid, I would assist them in celebrating _their_ mother - at least until they’re old enough to handle it themselves. And if I had a wife, I would not feel compelled to celebrate her (as she’s not _my_ mother) - though if the wife cared she could probably talk me into acting it out on her behalf because I expect I’d be pretty pliable regarding things that my wife cares about and I don’t. > > I don’t think it follows that mother’s day should be treated as “women who are related to you’s day”. I’ll of course concede it for the one grandmother or aunt that substantially raised you and was your mother figure, if such occured, but otherwise it’s not really their day, is it? I guess I don’t see it that way, and of course, wasn’t raised that way. Same with Father’s Day, I gave gifts to my dad, grandpas, and one uncle. Why? Same as for Mother’s Day, all of them had a say in my formation, at one point or other they did “fathering” or “mothering” duties. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/57 "2009-05-07T20:29:53Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I guess I don’t see it that way, and of course, wasn’t raised that way. Same with Father’s Day, I gave gifts to my dad, grandpas, and one uncle. Why? Same as for Mother’s Day, all of them had a say in my formation, at one point or other they did “fathering” or “mothering” duties. It may make a difference that I was never raised in any substantial way by anyone by my two parents. Everyone else lived out of state during most of my formative years, and were only seen on holidays even when one of my aunt/uncle/cousins sets moved into town. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/58 "2009-05-07T20:52:32Z")
It’s all about love, isn’t it? If you have it, you give it, and are the wealthier for it. If you haven’t, its still worthwhile to breathe and walk about. I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/59 "2009-05-07T21:14:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It’s all about love, isn’t it? If you have it, you give it, and are the wealthier for it. If you haven’t, its still worthwhile to breathe and walk about. I suppose. Naw. It’s all about maintaining more sociable family relations. If it was about love (and to the _degree_ it’s about love), you wouldn’t wait for mother’s day. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370/60 "2009-05-07T22:30:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If she is nagging and making you feel guilty, then by golly she is being a mother. > > Regards, > Shodan who’s life expectancy is shrinking rapidly because he didn’t make brunch reservations soon enough and is hoping Perkin’s will do I don’t know what Perkin’s is, but if you are any sort of brunch cook at all, I urge you to make brunch yourself, with a nicely set table and FRESH flowers for the table and for any mothers or motherlike beings who might wander by.\* I hate Mother’s Day brunches out because I don’t think that the service or the food is really great at these meals (unless you go to a FAAAABulous place and pay FAAAAAABulous prices). I also don’t like the cattle-car aspect of Mother’s Day at restaurants. \*Well, except for the cat, who will probably sniff the flowers and then eat them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mothers-day-conundrum/495370.md?page=4)