# The Mouse that Roars, the Worm that Turns **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092 "2013-08-24T22:52:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/1 "2013-08-24T22:52:55Z")
So what are famous characters (preferably film, but literature or TV ok) that start off as meek, nebbishy characters, but who–via some agency of empowerment or twist of fate–become the heroes of their own tales? I’m not looking for characters who “Break Bad” (otherwise Walter White would be perfect), nor am I looking for “Marty”-types who have simple stories about blue-collar hopes and dreams. I’m talking about those Walter Mitty\*-types who dream and fantasize about other, more adventurous lives and are able to inadvertently find one themselves. Joan Wilder in _Romancing the Stone_, for example. Others? \*Walter Mitty as in the Danny Kaye movie, not the Thurber short story–for the latter never elevates out of his fantasyland ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/2 "2013-08-24T23:02:58Z")
Frank Capra movies are noted for these characters. In _Mr. Deeds Goes to Town_ and _Mr. Smith Goes to Washington_ mild-mannered eccentrics get thrust into positions of wealth or power, and ultimately end up defeating their powerful and nefarious opponents. (However, Mr. Deeds never aspired to his role beforehand, while Mr. Smith did to some extent.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/3 "2013-08-24T23:51:48Z")
When Wesley was introduced to the show Angel, he was a nebbish incompetent who calls himself a “rogue demon hunter.” By the fourth (iirc) season, he’d alienated his friends, and was waging his own battle against the demonic forces using some rather extreme methods. (“I spent the summer keeping a woman locked in my closet.”) ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/4 "2013-08-25T00:02:59Z")
MY first example of this would be Vir Cotto, from Babylon 5. Kind of nerdy at first, he really developed a spine as the series went on. I loved his “spoo for brains” scene. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8MjQ5Z7ZNo) There was also the “What do you want?” scene with Mr. Morden. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/5 "2013-08-25T00:30:21Z")
Luke Skywalker. > [@Yoda](#): > > All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/6 "2013-08-25T00:53:20Z")
This has to be a Trope, although I’m not sure which one; maybe [Took A Level In Badass](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TookALevelInBadass) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/7 "2013-08-25T01:19:24Z")
Sarah Connor from the Terminator series. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/8 "2013-08-25T01:36:58Z")
Arnold Schwarzenegger in **Total Recall** (as far as he knows at the start). Edward G. Robinson in **The Whole Town’s Talking** W. C. Fields in **The Bank Dick** ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/9 "2013-08-25T01:37:55Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > There was also the “What do you want?” scene with Mr. Morden. And especially the (long-after) resolution of that scene. I still giggle. My contribution is Prince Dauntless the Drab, from _Once Upon A Mattress_. The transformation is actually explicitly prophecied…his father King Sextimus will suffer a curse of silence “until the mouse devours the hawk”. When Winnifred’s encouragement give him enough nerve to confront his uberbitchy mother, who has been sabotaging the princesses who have been coming to “audition” for marriage to Dauntless, his father’s curse is lifted. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/10 "2013-08-25T02:49:56Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > MY first example of this would be Vir Cotto, from Babylon 5. Kind of nerdy at first, he really developed a spine as the series went on. And was Emperor of the (ruins of the) Centauri at the very end, following the death of Londo. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/11 "2013-08-25T14:21:38Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > This has to be a Trope, although I’m not sure which one; maybe [Took A Level In Badass](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TookALevelInBadass) Or upon further searching: [Iron Woobie](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IronWoobie) ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/12 "2013-08-25T16:42:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And especially the (long-after) resolution of that scene. I still giggle. I loved that, when he raised his hand and wiggle his fingers in a wave. I’d almost forgotten his answer to Mr. Morden, but recalled it then. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/13 "2013-08-25T17:03:45Z")
Isn’t this the basic Hero’s Journey? So anything with that plot – _Star Wars_ came up, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/14 "2013-08-25T17:23:37Z")
Ranse Stoddard in _The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance_ Tommy in “Coward of the County” - which is best known as a song but was made into a movie. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/15 "2013-08-25T18:05:52Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > Isn’t this the basic Hero’s Journey? So anything with that plot – _Star Wars_ came up, for example. That’s why it works best to focus on “wimpy” ones at the start. I don’t think Luke Skywalker was timid or wimpy, just untrained and with no epic focus/mission. He had what it took, but needed to be nurtured. Sarah Connor and Vir were at least somewhat timid and unagressive and rose to become powerful people you would not want as enemies. And, fortunately, powerful forces for good. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/16 "2013-08-25T19:34:51Z")
Does Spider-Man fit this? What about Harry Potter? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/17 "2013-08-25T19:56:11Z")
All righty, then, how about The Incredible Mr. Limpet! ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/18 "2013-08-25T20:11:29Z")
Willie Stark in **All the King’s Men** Norbert Jones in **The Miracle of Morgan’s Creek** , though he has greatness thrust upon him. Chance the gardener from **Being There** ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/19 "2013-08-25T21:36:27Z")
Cameron Diaz’s character in Knight and Day. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092/20 "2013-08-26T01:05:46Z")
“A Jewish Barber” in **The Great Dictator**. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mouse-that-roars-the-worm-that-turns/667092.md?page=2)