# The movie "Dogma"/Foretelling future Continued **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 1999, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856 "1999-10-20T18:01:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 1999, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/21 "1999-10-20T21:30:00Z")
Obviously, Divemaster, if you had a better understanding of the goals advanced by Political Correctness, you wouldn’t feel so hostile towards the environmentally-aware and other forward-thinkers. Why don’t you give that some thought? Okay, just kidding. Put down the baseball bat. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pickman\_s\_Model](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Pickman\_s\_Model](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pickman_s_Model)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/22 "1999-10-21T03:13:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s another question suppose you caught your child came reading “Mein Kampf.” You’d be outraged, of course. But why? Chances are, you’ve never even READ “Mein Kampf.” How do you KNOW it’s evil, or even offensive? No, I wouldn’t be outraged. I’d think he was suffering from insomnia, and needed something to put him to sleep. JFTR, _Mein Kampf_ is one of the most pestiferously boring tomes I have ever read. Hitler’s writing style was muddled, to put it mildly—it’s one of those books where you have to translate it onto a legal pad as you go, to find out what’s being presented. Dull, dull, dull. He did lay out in full detail what he planned to do with Europe’s Jews, however—and of course, nobody took him seriously. Until after he’d already done it. Now, if you want to read Nazi propaganda that’s slightly more entertaining, try _The Myth of the Twentieth Century,_ by Alfred Rosenberg. It’s a bit better than _Mein Kampf,_ but not by much. _The Communist Manifesto_ and _The Words and Thoughts of Chairman Mao Tse-Tung_ are both pretty dry, too. You’d be better off to read old Erskine Caldwell novels. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/23 "1999-10-21T04:33:00Z")
Fine, Spoons. All Christians are lunatics and they should all die. Fuck you, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/24 "1999-10-21T13:44:00Z")
I used “Mein Kampf” merely as an example of something most people would be quite prepared to condemn, even though virtually no one has read it. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the book itself is dreck, and a crashing bore at that. BEing monumentally evil doesn’t necessarily make one talented or interesting. Along the same lines, every so often, some record company (usually an obscure label out to score some free publicity) will release some of CHarles Manson’s old recordings (you may recall, he was an aspiring rock musician before he became a guru). And I knew a guy in high school who obtained a bootleg copy, and put it on the cafeteria stereo, thinking he’d shock us all! Presumably, he was expecting heavy metal odes to Lucifer or something. You should have seen the crestfallen look on his face when he heard a bunch of LAME, wimpy, wussy, folkie love songs. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/25 "1999-10-21T13:47:00Z")
I’m sorry, this is way off thread, but I just had to share the concept of an alternate universe where Charlie Manson is a standard on easy listening stations! :::trying to stop chuckling before my co-workers wonder what’s wrong with me:::: ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/26 "1999-10-21T13:54:00Z")
So Has any group ever succeeded in getting something stopped because they protested it? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/27 "1999-10-21T14:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Condemning anything of which you have only second-hand knowledge is, IMHO, inexcusable. I would wager that the majority of your (and everyone elses’) opinions are based on second hand knowledge. Do you have an opinion on the Holocaust? Most people do. Were you personally persecuted by Nazis during WWII in Europe? Most people who condemn it were not. The crux of the issue is the source of information for your second hand knowledge. The Holocaust is well documented by many reliable sources, including first hand accounts from both sides. There is also “documentation” that says the Holocaust never took place. Some people believe that. The point is that one’s first hand knowledge is miniscule compared to the amount of knowledge available. To base an opinion on only what one knows first hand makes for a very narrow minded person. ---
**Author:** ![ThePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@ThePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThePolecat)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/28 "1999-10-21T15:26:00Z")
## I agree that only using first hand knowledge can be narrow minded. But condeming something that you CAN have first hand, un-biased knowledge of (e.g. seeing Dogma in a theater), without doing so is not good in my opinion. Very sheep-like in fact. As long as my bottle opener is Y2K compliant, I’ll be okay. ---
**Author:** ![VegForLife](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/9de0a6/32.png) [@VegForLife](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VegForLife)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/29 "1999-10-21T16:37:00Z")
Thanks for the clarifications, Polecat. I’d guess that we’re in pretty close agreement. I don’t think I get as outraged as others when I hear about protests such as this, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think the people are probably doing more harm to their cause than good. Rich ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/30 "1999-10-21T16:42:00Z")
POLECAT – You say sheep-like as if it’s a _bad_ thing. And, yes, I think most of us who post to this Board would agree that it is. But if your mind-set was that you didn’t want to expose yourself (or anyone) to something “evil,” and that the word of someone you absolutely trusted and admired (like your fundie minister) was that a certain film/CD/book/whatever _was_ evil, then you wouldn’t think it necessary to review it yourself. To them, I imagine it’s like someone saying “that stove is hot; don’t touch it!” They see no need to then go touch it and check if it really _is_ hot; they see nothing wrong with taking a leader’s word that it is. Again, it goes back to the value you place on making up your own mind. I don’t think these people place a terribly high value on that. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/31 "1999-10-21T16:57:00Z")
jodih, additionally, they want to make up OUR minds about things. These “protesters” wanted this movied completely destroyed. Burned. Never ever released. Locked in a box and shot into outer space. They didn’t even want us to have the ability to decide for ourselves whether or not we agree or disagree, like or dislike, see or don’t see this movie. **That** is why these kind of people scare me, and yes, threaten me. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 1999, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/32 "1999-10-22T05:07:00Z")
Satan said: > [@](#): > > Fuck you, asshole. Cool it or take it to the Pit. Now. * * * David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 1999, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/33 "1999-10-22T05:08:00Z")
Orangecakes asked: > [@](#): > > So Has any group ever succeeded in getting something stopped because they protested it? Yup. Just recently, an Arab group protested against a Disney exhibit that was going to apparently show Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Disney now says the exhibit will not mention the capital at all. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 1999, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/34 "1999-10-22T05:10:00Z")
Oh, and there have also been protests by creationists in the Bible Belt against zoos that have evolution-related material posted. I can’t recall specifics, but I know at least one or two zoos backed down and reworded exhibits so as not to offend these folks. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 1999, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/35 "1999-10-22T05:11:00Z")
Oh, heck, I wish I could remember more than one thing at a time. Speaking of Arabs and Disney, I believe Arabs protested about a line in the original _Aladdin_ cartoon movie, something in a song about if you offend an Arab, he’ll cut off your ear. So Disney changed the line when they released it to video. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 1999, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/36 "1999-10-22T05:35:00Z")
David,so what did the zoos use as a representative of the last form of evolution,a guy sitting in a chair watching a football game? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 1999, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/37 "1999-10-22T05:36:00Z")
I suppose they also didn’t show the exhibit Beastiality in ancient times". ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/38 "1999-10-21T18:11:00Z")
No, orangecakes, the trend reversed. The figure to the right of the upright Cro-Magnon was a stooped-over individual carrying a heavy Bible. The next one was Jesse Helms. I’ve put out of my mind what followed; it was too horrible! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/39 "1999-10-21T19:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, and there have also been protests by creationists in the Bible Belt against zoos that have evolution-related material posted. I can’t recall specifics, but I know at least one or two zoos backed down and reworded exhibits so as not to offend these folks. Actually, IIRC, the second part of your statement is propaganda/misinformation from the creation science crowd; the zoo didn’t change a thing. I’ll see if I can find a relevant link. * * * “I love God! He’s so deliciously evil!” - Stewie Griffin, _Family Guy_ ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 1999, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856/40 "1999-10-21T20:29:00Z")
Getting back to the OP… Some Christians seem to forget that one of the tenets of Christianity is that people are supposed to strengthen themselves spiritually to RESIST temptation, not AVOID it. If they see this “evil” film, they’re thinking, they will be tempted to abandon their beliefs. If a secular humanist sees it, they think, said humanist will continue to hold to his/her beliefs and be lost. IMO, if you change your beliefs because you saw a movie–ANY movie-- then your faith wasn’t very strong in the first place. You want to know why it’s so hard to change a Christian’s mind? Because they think they’re helping you when they’re trying to change yours. It’s like trying to tell a doctor not to save a patient’s life. * * * Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to relive it. Georges Santayana [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-dogma-foretelling-future-continued/16856.md?page=3)