# The Movie "Seven"--What did I miss? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 4, 2000, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976 "2000-09-04T15:36:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2000, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976/21 "2000-09-04T20:54:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diesel \* > **Tracy (Paltrow) did not die because she was envious. She was part of John Doe’s sin of envy. He envied Detective Mills’ life so much that if he couldn’t have it, he would take it away from Mills.** Read my post again, particularly the word I _italicised_ several times. She _ **represented** _ envy, and was thus killed because of that. ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2000, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976/22 "2000-09-04T22:37:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Am I the only one who yelled out “A Whiter Shade of Pale!”? If you were watching TV in the UK in the 1970s and 1980s, that tune means only one thing: Hamlet cigars. **Montfort** , I understand your point about the victims representing, rather than being guilty of, the sins, but I don’t agree with it. Seven people are punished for their sins by John Doe. In addition, and as a necessary means to his ends, two (or three) innocent people are killed: 1. Gluttony - the fat man 2. Greed - the lawyer 3. Sloth - the junkie 4. Lust - the prostitute’s client (4A. the prostitute is killed in the course of punishing her client) 5. Pride - the beautiful woman 6. Envy - John Doe 7. Wrath - Mills (7A. Tracey and (7B.) the unborn child are killed in the course of punishing Mills). ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2000, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976/23 "2000-09-04T23:11:32Z")
We need to separate “who was guilty of the sin” from “who died as a result”. **Who was guilty of the sin:** 1. gluttony - the fat man 2. greed - the lawyer 3. sloth - the junkie 4. lust - the prostitute’s client (more so than the prostitute herself) 5. pride - the beautiful woman 6. envy - John Doe 7. wrath - Mills **Who died as a result:** 1. gluttony - the fat man 2. greed - the lawyer 3. sloth - the junkie 4. lust - the prostitute’s client 5. pride - the beautiful woman 6. envy - Tracy 7. wrath - John Doe ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2000, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976/24 "2000-09-04T23:18:25Z")
Wow, I didn’t realize there was so much open to debate about this. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![silent\_rob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@silent\_rob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silent_rob)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2000, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976/25 "2000-09-04T23:35:45Z")
Okay, funny this movie should come up, because I just rented it a couple of days ago (and hence still have it). John Doe’s diatribe near the ned reveals that the 5 people he killed were **guilty** of their crimes: (SPOILER SPACE) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . **John Doe** : _Innocent? Is that supposed to be funny?!? An obese man, ( **gluttony** ) a disgusting man who could barely stand up, a man who could barely stand up…And after him I picked the lawyer ( **greed** ), and you both must have secretly been thanking me for that. This is a man who dedicated his life to making money by lying…A woman ( **pride** ) so ugly on the inside that she couldn’t go on living if she wasn’t beautiful on the inside. A drug dealer ( **sloth** ), a drug dealing peterace (sp?) actually. And lets not forget the disease spreading whore ( **lust** ). Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and try to keep a straight face._ So, he had judged them all guilty of their sins. That left _envy_ and _wrath_. Brad Pitt was guilty of **wrath** , when he killed John Doe in anger. And John Doe was guilty of **envy** , as was revealed in his final words: **John Doe** : \*When I say I admired you (to Pitt), I meant what I said. You’ve made quite a life for yourself detective, you should be very proud… I wish I could have lived like you… You hear me? I’m trying to tell you how much I admire you, and your lovely wife Tracy… I tried to play husband, I tried to play the life of a simple man. It didn’t work out, so I took a souveneir. Her pretty head… Because I envy your normal life, it would seem that **envy is my sin** … (to Pitt) Become wrath. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2000, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976/26 "2000-09-04T23:46:30Z")
Did anyone notice that the same motif (killing one person for each of the Seven eadly Sins) has already been used in the second Dr. Phibes movie? Vincent Price beats Kevin Spacey to the punch! And he has cooler makeup! ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976/27 "2000-09-05T00:03:48Z")
Once again Rob… **You Da Man!!!** 😃 -Sam ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976/28 "2000-09-05T00:49:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ruffian \* > \*\*Wow, I didn’t realize there was so much open to debate about this. 🙂 \*\* That’s the mark of a great movie, Ruffian. Funny how you don’t see people talking about _Forrest Gump_ this way. ---
**Author:** ![silent\_rob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@silent\_rob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silent_rob)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976/29 "2000-09-05T06:08:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GaWd \* > **Once again Rob…You Da Man!!!** 😃 What can I say? I’m here to help. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-movie-seven-what-did-i-miss/31976.md?page=1)