The Movie "Zulu"

http://dir.salon.com/story/people/bc/2000/10/03/caine/index.html?pn=2

I rate this film as “fanfuckingtastic” a 9.5. :cool:

Love it!

The red dye used for much of the red coats was Cochineal, made from a small insect found in southern Mexico. It was, by weight, more valuable than silver. In fact, cochineal was a major target for British privateers waylaying spanish ships.

I think the red coats may have been chosen because it’s a really nice color.

Oh I don’t know, I consider the maurading English army as being the most fearsome warriors on the planet. What with their conquering a third of the globe and all.

What makes it even more interesting is that the battle too place after a significant Zulu victory over English and Boers (I believe).

Islandlwana.
Subject of the prequel movie Zulu Dawn.

I remember someone perpetuating the “noble savage” archetype by talking about how screwed the white guys were if they got into hand to hand because the Zulus were better one on one in the close combat. I had to educate him in the reality of bayonet drill. A rifle with bayonet was actually better for close fighting than the little slashing spear and hide shield the Zulus carried. It was carried by a man who was educated in the proper, most effective, use of that weapon in close quarters and who had to practice using it quite a lot. In a one-on one situation, it was far from a foregone conclusion that whitey was going down. More like 50-50. The real reason the Brits were screwed in close quarters was the 4,000 to 100 disparity.

An empty rifle still makes a fine weapon.

Ahem. No. Red Dye in Cromwell’s era was made through a combination of bran liquor, Alum, madder and Argol (tartric acid). It is a natural red dye, thus prone to fading.

British soldiers did not stop wearing red coats after Cromwell. Different sources were used. You’re almost surely right about the common soldiers uniforms being dyed with inferior material. But officers got the good stuff. But as cochineal supplies got cheaper over the decades (More like centuries!) it was more and more often used for even the common soldiers gear. But then it was replaced in the mid 1800’s by purely chemical aniline dyes.

From Here

All the more reason why they would probably have a very clear understanding of how screwed were.

Or how desperate the situation was. My point was, I would consider a fully trained English army as being considerably more dangerous than an equal or even larger Zulu army or for that matter (at the time we are discussing) pretty much any other army in the world.

They had better weapons, better equipment, better organization and so on. It wasn’t a matter of them being better warriors ( although I’m sure they often were ), but them having a better military machine.

And the movie is excellent.

Which makes them the more fearsome warriors in terms of who is actually going to do you the most harm. Note that many of the Zulus also had rifles as well.

In terms of ferocity generally, the British were an incredibly successful military force even without the advantage of guns .

Not a universally held opinion. :smiley:

Come tell us how you slew
Those brave Arabs two by two
Like the Zulus they had spears and bows and arrows,
How you bravely slew each one
With your sixteen pounder gun
And you frightened them poor natives to their marrow.

Well yea, because they lost :slight_smile:

I’m Irish so I’m not much of a fan of British imperalism. Fact remains, however, is that they were very successful. As such, I consider them to be the more fearsome warrriors than the Zulu’s or the Irish for that matter. When it comes to war, it’s winning that counts.

I wouldn’t call them fearsome so much as I would efficient. That I’ll grant the British Army any day of the week.

Winning most of the time is fearsome enough for me. Actually, it’s all that matters imho.

As has been mentioned, a Zulu army of 12,000 had just attacked and almost wiped out a British force of 1,700 at nearby Isandhlwana. (There were only 400 survivors, including 80 Europeans. I believe it was the worst single defeat ever suffered by a colonial army against native forces.) The defenders at Rorke’s drift were warned by a few survivors who managed to make it there. Defending the site was their best option. If they had tried to flee they certainly would have been wiped out.

The local secondary PBS station showed it a couple years running during their celebration of Black History Month. While I can accept the bravery of the Zulu, I’m at a loss going further how this movie–or event–fit in with the rest of the celebration.

OTOH, what other movie shows Advancing by Ranks and how effective it can be?

(edited to add) Oh, you guys used to multiple-shot weapons don’t need to know how to do that, do you? :smack:

So I was inspired to sit down and watch Zulu again tonight. Every time some ordered “Fire at will”, I couldn’t help thinking, “Which one is Will and why do they hate him so?”

Agree with Lochdale. Of course, an amazingly high percentage of the thin red line in the 19th century was non-English. Mostly, that means Scottish and Irish. Highlander regiments did some amazing things in the Crimea and India. And, even if you discount the place of birth of its general, the Peninsular army in the Napoleonic wars was largely Irish.

And the Rorke’s Drift forces? Welsh.