# The Mueller report. The week after its released **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 30, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699 "2019-01-30T23:39:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/342 "2019-04-04T16:22:48Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I thought there was no lying in Great Debates? > > Oh… wrong forum. Never mind! That’ll earn you a warning, JohnT. You should know better than this. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/343 "2019-04-04T16:25:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If this is correct, your side should have no problem winning some lawsuits to enforce it. AG Barr seems to think some redactions are necessary before releasing it to the public. Hence the subpoena. No one disagrees some redactions are necessary before releasing to the pubic. Barr seems to think it’s his job to redact before releasing it to _Congress_. See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/344 "2019-04-04T16:30:39Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That’ll earn you a warning, JohnT. You should know better than this. OK, so I mimic the un-warned post #338. I don’t believe you, Ditka. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/345 "2019-04-04T16:36:55Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > … Barr seems to think it’s his job to redact before releasing it to _Congress_. … This bears repeating just in case anyone is, for some reason, confused. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/346 "2019-04-04T17:30:14Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > … No one disagrees some redactions are necessary before releasing to the pubic. … I don’t think you and Airbeck are on the same page here: > [@Airbeck](#): > > If Loretta Lynch unilaterally decided to redact the results of an investigation into Obama you would be fine with that? No issue whatsoever? > > What’s to stop him from just redacting everything that reflects badly on Trump or the GOP? Anyways, backing up for a moment, earlier you said: > [@Aspenglow](#): > > … He is obligated to turn over an unredacted report to Congress … Where does that obligation come from? Not snarky, just a serious question for my own edification. IANAL, but I remember some earlier discussion on this subject and it was asserted that Barr could literally toss the report in a drawer and leave it there if he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/347 "2019-04-04T18:15:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > \ > > Where does that obligation come from? Not snarky, just a serious question for my own edification. IANAL, but I remember some earlier discussion on this subject and it was asserted that Barr could literally toss the report in a drawer and leave it there if he wanted. I understand what the assertion is based on, re the change in the applicable Special Counsel rules and a very narrow, gratuitous interpretation of them. However, the argument (specious at best) is a complete fail in that it utterly disregards Congress’s _constitutional duties_ to act as an oversight check on the Executive and to act to protect our national security. This is fundamental to our system of government. For these reasons, Congress _must_ see the full unredacted report prepared by Mueller. That was the entire point of the investigation. The Constitution will, uhh, trump DOJ rules every time in a court of law – and that’s why Barr is in the wrong. He knows it, too. It’s why he walked back with his “summary that’s not a summary.” If his 3 1/2 page letter is found to be in general disagreement with what the full, unredacted report shows, then that’s evidence of obstruction. Pretty serious obstruction. If you can bifurcate the partisanship taint from this undertaking, it all becomes extremely clear. Unfortunately, the Trump team taints everything with partisanship, eager to make a false claim that there is some partisan basis for congressional oversight on the Executive. There isn’t. It’s their job. It’s very sad when Congress doing their job is at total loggerheads with exonerating a president of any wrongdoing, but that appears to be the case here. The issue of redaction as regards the public is a different matter, but we’re not there yet. Also, you might be well served to learn the difference between the term, “collusion,” which is simply a way to refer to some level of coordination between Team Trump and the Russians, v. “conspiracy,” which is a crime requiring very particular elements to be met in order to be charged. It is not necessary for a president to commit a crime in order to be impeached. Many citizens would find coordination – rising to the level of the term, “collusion” – sufficient to consider impeachment proceedings, if that concern is addressed in Mueller’s report. I’m pretty sure it is. This is also what distinguishes this situation from the pathetically laughable Barr assertion that he doesn’t want to end up as the next “James Comey.” By Barr’s own definition, congressional oversight of the Executive is the _only check on the Executive’s power_. It is therefore an entirely different matter than Comey violating a long-standing DOJ rule that the FBI/DOJ doesn’t speak about charges that won’t be brought. _Barr has already asserted that charges cannot be brought against the executive due to the DOJ rule precluding it_. He can’t then equally assert that he is withholding information because a crime will not be charged. He must give the information over to the body tasked with determining if the executive should be impeached, as it is the only remedy he recognizes under the rule of law. Otherwise, he is simply saying that a president is above the law – no matter what unethical, immoral or criminal means that president may have employed to gain the office. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/348 "2019-04-04T18:20:30Z")
Missed the edit window: IANAL, either. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/349 "2019-04-04T18:26:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you believe this - I don’t believe that. The part you quoted is what, in my opinion, **HurricaneDitka** believes. Sorry for the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/350 "2019-04-04T18:42:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Such blustery confidence. Kind of reminds me of the things your side said during the Meuller investigation. If you (or anybody else) have any genuine, good-faith confusion about why it’s a big deal to wait several weeks before the Mueller report is made available to representatives of the general public, consider that you have just attempted to draw a distinction between “the Meuller investigation” and _the report written by Mueller about the investigation._ For those of us who are willing and capable of seeing the obviously-objectively-true fact that we don’t know what the results of the Mueller investigation are yet, more time to try to push that distinction is a problem. Unless you think you aren’t drawing a distinction, but usually people don’t compare an apple to the same apple. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/351 "2019-04-04T18:49:01Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > … Unless you think you aren’t drawing a distinction, but usually people don’t compare an apple to the same apple. I was drawing a comparison between assertions like “Ultimately, there will be only one narrative - the truth - and it’s not going to be one you will like” and all the confident predictions along the lines that President Trump was going to be frog-marched from the White House in handcuffs. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/352 "2019-04-04T18:57:52Z")
I have very little doubt that you understand the point I’m making already, but OK. Those “confident predictions” you’re comparing that assertion to. They were proven wrong, were they? When did that happen? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/353 "2019-04-04T18:59:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I was drawing a comparison between assertions like “Ultimately, there will be only one narrative - the truth - and it’s not going to be one you will like” and all the confident predictions along the lines that President Trump was going to be frog-marched from the White House in handcuffs. Don’t give up hope yet. The truth may not come out, and even if it does, you can’t be forced to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/354 "2019-04-04T19:35:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I was drawing a comparison between assertions like “Ultimately, there will be only one narrative - the truth - and it’s not going to be one you will like” and all the confident predictions along the lines that President Trump was going to be frog-marched from the White House in handcuffs. Since you’ve quoted me, I would like to clarify that I’m not of the view that the contents of the Mueller Report will lead to President Trump being “frog-marched from the White House in handcuffs”. I consider the modern Republican Party to be too ethically defunct and morally debased to consider supporting the impeachment of a President from their party for matters relating to obstruction of justice or non-criminal collusion with Russia. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/355 "2019-04-04T21:39:23Z")
Man, this “full exoneration” story is just _falling apart_. I mean, whoda thunk a pack of liars would lie? > **[NBC’s Ken Dilanian Reports That Members of Mueller’s Team Think Evidence of...](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/nbcs-ken-dilanian-reports-that-members-of-muellers-team-think-evidence-of-collusion-is-very-compelling/)** > > NBC News reporter Ken Dilanian said Thursday that members of Robert Mueller's team are frustrated with the way the attorney general characterized their findings, even with regard to the evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. NBC... > [@](#): > > NBC News reporter Ken Dilanian said Thursday that members of Robert Mueller‘s team are frustrated with the way the attorney general characterized their findings, even with regard to the evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. > > NBC confirmed reporting from the New York Times and Washington Post that special counsel investigators were taking issue with Barr’s characterization of their findings on obstruction, but their reporting had more details about those frustrations. > > “I think we’ve taken it a little further,” Dilanian said of his reporting, during an appearance on MSNBC. “There are members of Mueller’s team who are frustrated that William Barr stepped in and cleared the president on obstruction when Robert Mueller didn’t do that.” > “The intent was to allow Congress and the public to make their own decision about the evidence,” Dilanian said. > > Dilanian also revealed new reporting that some on the special counsel’s team are frustrated by how evidence of collusion was represented. > > “We’re hearing from a separate U.S. official that some members of the Mueller team say that the evidence on collusion, while not establishing a criminal conspiracy, is actually very compelling. > > “Some of it may be classified, but to the extent we get to see it, Mueller’s report talks about those contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia, and raises the issue as to whether the Trump campaign was manipulated by a sophisticated Russian intelligence operation,” Dilanian added. “We need to see the report. The Barr summary, by many accounts, did not quite do it justice.” ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/356 "2019-04-05T00:59:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > \ Saying “we need a report that doesn’t tell us what we already know” just makes them look, if possible, even pettier and more silly. Much like the Benghazi investigations. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/357 "2019-04-05T18:15:32Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Man, this “full exoneration” story is just _falling apart_. I mean, whoda thunk a pack of liars would lie? Well, of course they lied, but those lies wil now forever be the Real Facts™. Recall November 2000 when news networds, beginning with Fox, called Florida for Bush? For many millions of Americans, that call became an immutable fact. All subsequent events in that story were just the sore loser fighting the Real Facts™. Similarly, many millions of Americans — including millions who thought him guilty — now know that Mueller exonerated Trump. Mueller himself may contradict this, but it won’t matter — that will just be Mueller lying about his own Report. The Real Facts™ have been laid out already. Fox viewers obviously will never hear differently, but even CNN viewers, who’ve already heard the Real Facts™, will think CNN is lying again if Mueller contradicts what they already “know” about the Mueller Report. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/358 "2019-04-09T15:30:58Z")
[Darn, it looks like Trump is attacking the people who just exonerated him.](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/how-donald-trump-relearned-to-hate-the-mueller-report-in-just-10-days) And after all that work by the exonerators! Ditka, is this the actions of an innocent man? Oh, don’t bother. Post 338. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699.md?page=17)