# The Mueller report. The week after its released **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 30, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699 "2019-01-30T23:39:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/61 "2019-01-31T15:44:17Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > I expect Democrats to say they is sufficient evidence of collusion It would be playing into the Reps’ hands to use that word. They’ll call it by its legal name instead - _conspiracy_. Obstruction of justice, too. That was enough for Nixon, ftr. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/62 "2019-01-31T15:46:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It hasn’t. That isn’t true. Obama started the European Reassurance Initiative, now called the European Deterrence Initiative, which sends troops in and out of the eastern flank of NATO and has been building up some infrastructure there. [The effort has been pretty well received by everyone but Russia.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3009704/Welcoming-cavalry-Hundreds-Polish-residents-turn-greet-convoy-U-S-troops-driving-eastern-Europe.html) ETA: And by implication, **Will Farnaby.** ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/63 "2019-01-31T15:55:37Z")
[This YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obXEEf3r7D8) mentions some of Trump’s sweetheart gifts to Putin. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Which specific behavior was that? > … > C) Backing NATO ally Turkey > … The YGP has been called the most effective fighting force against ISIS in Syria. The U.S. has been supplying the YGP with weapons, while Turkey has been bombing and firing artillery _against_ it. By “Backing Turkey” are you referring to U.S. abandoning the fight against ISIS and leaving YGP at the mercy of the Turks? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/64 "2019-01-31T15:58:51Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Which specific behavior was that? > > A) NATO expansion > B) NATO military buildup > C) Backing NATO ally Turkey > D) Continuing Sanctions > E) Bu bu but Maddow said… Could you quit saying that Trump expanded NATO? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/65 "2019-01-31T16:56:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It would be playing into the Reps’ hands to use that word. They’ll call it by its legal name instead - _conspiracy_. Obstruction of justice, too. > > That was enough for Nixon, ftr. I mean on message boards, not elected representatives. They’ll say “collusion” as they have been all along. And there were tapes with Nixon that outraged the public. And no Fox News (indeed, reading about Ailes memo and Nixon was interesting). Our public doesn’t care about his tweets or televised comments so far, so “tapes” (digital recordings?) would have to go further than those. And Nixon still got pardoned. If another president ever goes down the same way, I expect there will be another pre-emptive pardon. Hopefully, I’m just too pessimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/66 "2019-01-31T17:03:46Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > There will be evidence of illegal financial actions by the president but no effort to indict him. There will be strong circumstantial evidence that he had motives for acting on behalf of Putin and took action in that direction, also members of his campaign will have been shown to have collaborated with the Russians. But there won’t be a smoking gun showing direct involvement of Quid-pro-quo. So anybody who is unbiased and has half a brain will see that he colluded with the Russians, but there will be enough of a fig leaf that Republicans will claim that he is a pure as driven snow. This, pretty much. I strongly _suspect_ it will be some variant of #2 - lots of circumstantial evidence obliquely pointing at Trump, but no smoking gun. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/67 "2019-01-31T17:06:26Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Could you quit saying that Trump expanded NATO? Thanks. The Rachel Maddow obsession is a tad creepy, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/68 "2019-01-31T17:07:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I vote - > [list=A][li]No matter what the report says, Republicans will claim it exonerates Trump[/li][li]No matter what the report says, Democrats will claim it proves criminal collusion beyond any shadow of a doubt, and[/li][li]Democrats will open another investigation.[/list][/li]Regards, > Shodan yes I agree this will be the result ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/69 "2019-01-31T17:14:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I vote - > [list=A][li]No matter what the report says, Republicans will claim it exonerates Trump[/li][li]No matter what the report says, Democrats will claim it proves criminal collusion beyond any shadow of a doubt, and[/li][li]Democrats will open another investigation.[/list][/li]Regards, > Shodan So I’d put that first option as “pretty likely”. The republican party is very much wedded to Trump at this point. The [House Intelligence Committee investigation was a total whitewash](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/01/roger-stones-indictment-proves-the-house-republicans-russia-investigation-was-a-whitewash.html), and no republican seems willing, let alone interested in, saying very much about how many people in Trump’s immediate circle have been indicted. It’d take absolutely astounding evidence to convince them otherwise. The second option, though? I’d be curious why you believe that. So far, democratic politicians have been fairly measured in their actions. There hasn’t been anything like what’s going on on the republican side. So why do you imagine that they would claim it proves “collusion” beyond the shadow of a doubt even if the report didn’t actually claim anything of the sort? ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/70 "2019-01-31T17:22:22Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > :smack: > > Guys… It’s been two years since this scandal was completely debunked. It’s a [big fat stupid hoax](https://www.vox.com/2017/11/17/16658080/uranium-one-clinton-russia-chart) that never made any sense. I don’t think it makes any sense to repeatedly go over this nonsense over and over again. Clinton was not “one of nine people”. She wasn’t even involved. Someone working beneath her in the state department was someone from one of the nine _federal agencies_ (not people, _agencies_) who signed off on the deal, along with the US nuclear regulatory commission and the nuclear regulator of the state of Utah. > > Are you aware that Donald Trump Jr. met with Russian intelligence to discuss dirt on Hillary Clinton? > > Are you aware that Giuliani has moved from “no collusion” to [“collusion isn’t a crime”](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/30/giuliani-is-right-collusion-isnt-a-crime-but-that-wont-help-trump.html)? ( **Ancient Erudite** clearly isn’t.) > > Are you aware that Trump has been acting really weird towards Russia since his campaign, and that we know full well that Russia was responsible for hacking Clinton’s email servers, and that they started doing so [around the same time as he asked them to](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-asked-russia-to-find-clintons-emails-on-or-around-the-same-day-russians-targeted-her-accounts)? Are you aware that Trump has repeatedly denied the claims of his own intelligence agencies that Russia was behind that hack, and instead opted to take Putin’s word for it? > > People saying that Trump is a Russian asset are not simply going off his business deals. They’re going off his continued behavior. > > You’re coming into this discussion without really understanding the basics or the background. While there’s nothing wrong with that, maybe it would be better to ask questions, rather than act like you already understand everything about it. Thats fair to say. I gotta read up before I shoot off some of this stuff. My only real point was there’s a whole lot of far left here. On the discussing dirt thing, how is that different than the Steele dossier? One of nine thing I was just going off the Snopes article, which “debunks” it by saying she was one of the council of nine and she didn’t know what happened. And that no actual uranium changed hands , which to me is kind of a null point if you sell the whole company. Sorry to use you as an example, but you are someone here i would describe as solidly left. We rarely agree, but you don’t come off as a fanatic even though your views seem to run well with democratic lines and usually make some kind of sense without assuming anything not well behind the party line must automatically be the total opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/71 "2019-01-31T17:23:27Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > yes I agree this will be the result X2 ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/72 "2019-01-31T17:27:00Z")
I predict that Mueller will say he needs more time. After all, it worked with the Blair investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/73 "2019-01-31T17:27:10Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So I’d put that first option as “pretty likely”. The republican party is very much wedded to Trump at this point. The [House Intelligence Committee investigation was a total whitewash](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/01/roger-stones-indictment-proves-the-house-republicans-russia-investigation-was-a-whitewash.html), and no republican seems willing, let alone interested in, saying very much about how many people in Trump’s immediate circle have been indicted. It’d take absolutely astounding evidence to convince them otherwise. > > The second option, though? I’d be curious why you believe that. So far, democratic politicians have been fairly measured in their actions. There hasn’t been anything like what’s going on on the republican side. So why do you imagine that they would claim it proves “collusion” beyond the shadow of a doubt even if the report didn’t actually claim anything of the sort? The poll results of this thread heavily support the second option ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/74 "2019-01-31T17:32:45Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > Thats fair to say. I gotta read up before I shoot off some of this stuff. > My only real point was there’s a whole lot of far left here. There is. But there is also a whole lot of far right here. And a lot of in-between too. > [@](#): > > On the discussing dirt thing, how is that different than the Steele dossier? One is a foreign power committing an illegal act and then offering the proceeds of that act to a political campaign with the purpose of influencing the election with the enthusiastic participation of the campaign itself. The other is an independent consultant hired by a company hired first by a right-wing publication and subsequently by a political campaign to do opposition research, the product of which was handed to law enforcement in the US and UK due to some of its findings. There are similarities but the differences are the important bit. > [@](#): > > One of nine thing I was just going off the Snopes article, which “debunks” it by saying she was one of the council of nine and she didn’t know what happened. Her department was one of nine. There were representatives from each department involved in the decision but she wasn’t the State Department one. Obviously she held oversight power of her department’s decision as Secretary but there’s zero evidence to suggest she even attempted to influence the decision of her own department, let alone the others or the president. > [@](#): > > And that no actual uranium changed hands , which to me is kind of a null point if you sell the whole company. Not if you prevent the uranium from leaving the country, as the deal did, contrary to the claim made by some that its was sold to be shipped off to Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/75 "2019-01-31T17:38:19Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > The poll results of this thread heavily support the second option 😕 The poll results of this thread are about what we _predict_ the outcome will be. It has very little to say about what happens if those predictions wrong and the report comes out with nothing. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/76 "2019-01-31T17:38:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I vote - > [list=A][li]No matter what the report says, Republicans will claim it exonerates Trump[/li][li]No matter what the report says, Democrats will claim it proves criminal collusion beyond any shadow of a doubt, and[/li][li]Democrats will open another investigation.[/list][/li]Regards, > Shodan > [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > yes I agree this will be the result > [@Littleman](#): > > X2 So if the report does clearly indicate criminal collusion, Democrats acknowledge this fact and Republicans deny it, this will merely prove the claim of bothsidesism? Neat trick. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/77 "2019-01-31T17:42:40Z")
> **[Trump Backs Montenegro's NATO Admission](https://www.newsweek.com/trump-nato-montenegro-putin-membership-582454)** > > Russia had called plans to admit Montenegro to NATO a "provocation." Trump backed the expansion of NATO. It happened under his regime. To think that such facts are unknown to people with a vociferous opinion in favor of Russian escalation is troubling. Thankfully the serious policy people understand that Trump is the son of Obama in this issue. Indeed, Obama also asked NATO to increase military buildup. But if Trump does it, bizarre ideology twists the request into a Putin directive. Some good stuff being smoked by lefties these days. There are things about the post wwii American presidency that are sacrosanct. Trump has not changed it. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/78 "2019-01-31T17:42:53Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > 😕 > > The poll results of this thread are about what we _predict_ the outcome will be. It has very little to say about what happens if those predictions wrong and the report comes out with nothing. True but given that we’re pretty sure 75 percent of the board is democratic…not According to me. Seems the poll and the comments suggest most Democrats are already convinced and the report isn’t even out yet. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/79 "2019-01-31T17:53:05Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > So if the report does clearly indicate criminal collusion, Democrats acknowledge this fact and Republicans deny it, this will merely prove the claim of bothsidesism? Neat trick. Same result if it clearly indicates no collusion. Republicans will acknowledge the fact and Democrats deny it. Clearly shodan said, no matter what the report says. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699/80 "2019-01-31T17:56:35Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > True but given that we’re pretty sure 75 percent of the board is democratic…not According to me. > Seems the poll and the comments suggest most Democrats are already convinced and the report isn’t even out yet. I can’t speak for anyone else, but on my end, I think the evidence at this point is so far that it’d be really bizarre if Trump was not involved. 6 people from his inner circle and campaign have already been convicted, with more implicated. Trump’s behavior with regards to Russia and Putin has been quite utterly bizarre, to the point where it’s nearly impossible to ignore or write off, and in the meanwhile he’s been committing quite a bit of [witness tampering](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/23/michael-cohen-says-trump-giuliani-threatened-him-does-that-amount-witness-tampering/) and [obstruction of justice](https://www.brookings.edu/research/presidential-obstruction-of-justice-the-case-of-donald-j-trump-2nd-edition/). The administration’s talking points on the subject has been a constantly-shifting morass of lies. There’s not enough evidence to construct a criminal case, but in terms of what’s most likely? This is “stupid watergate”. Trump is almost certainly implicated in or guilty of _something_. Now, if the report comes out and completely clears him? Maybe I’m wrong. But if we’re talking about our predictions about the report, the assumption that he’s on the hook for something probably isn’t that far off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mueller-report-the-week-after-its-released/828699.md?page=5)