# The mundane unrealistic details that take you out of the batshit fantastically unrealistic setting **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755 "2015-03-23T02:44:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/141 "2015-03-27T19:33:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Roger Bacon and Marcus Graecus had fireworks in around 1267- 1300, so that’s certainly medieval. You’re Special pleading, and you know it. Gunpowder as a fact of life didn’t exist for Europe until the 13th century, and even after early encounters, still didn’t affect things – like making castles lose their curtain walls until after that. Wikipedia calls “Middle Ages” from the 5th nto the 15th centuries. For the bulk of that Europe had not even the knowledge of gunpowder. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/142 "2015-03-27T19:49:57Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > You’re Special pleading, and you know it. > > Gunpowder as a fact of life didn’t exist for Europe until the 13th century, and even after early encounters, still didn’t affect things – like making castles lose their curtain walls until after that. Wikipedia calls “Middle Ages” from the 5th nto the 15th centuries. For the bulk of that Europe had not even the knowledge of gunpowder. Sure. But we have two _(count em, two!_) dudes in Middle Earth who know about gunpowder. I showed you that there were two (_count em, two!_) dudes in Medieval Europe that also did. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/143 "2015-03-27T19:59:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure. But we have two _(count em, two!_) dudes in Middle Earth who know about gunpowder. I showed you that there were two (_count em, two!_) dudes in Medieval Europe that also did. No matter how good Roger Bacon was, he was no _Istar_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/144 "2015-03-27T20:03:38Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > No matter how good Roger Bacon was, he was no _Istar_. Are you sure? Has anyone one seen Roger Bacon and Gandalf in the same room at the same time? 😛 aha! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/145 "2015-03-27T20:45:59Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Well, Tolkien was always very meticulous about only using old idioms, but he was an etymologist, so that should be no surprise. > > What always jarred for me about Middle Earth was the tobacco. And the potatoes. Two species from the New World in a world that has no analogue for the Americas. As an aside: one interesting thing about GRRM’s Song of Ice and Fire is that Westeros’s native flora and fauna is clearly North American, and not the standard European. Which makes sense, actually. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/146 "2015-03-27T20:48:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > As an aside: one interesting thing about GRRM’s Song of Ice and Fire is that Westeros’s native flora and fauna is clearly North American, I never noticed that, got a link or info? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/147 "2015-03-27T20:55:45Z")
It’s just from reading the books: off the top of my head, I remember corn, pumpkins, wild turkeys, mountain lions, buffalo and sasquatch (although the last two are debatable). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/148 "2015-03-27T20:59:26Z")
Buffalo aren’t North American. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/149 "2015-03-27T21:00:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s just from reading the books: off the top of my head, I remember corn, pumpkins, wild turkeys, mountain lions, buffalo and sasquatch (although the last two are debatable). You said the “B” word!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: Good point, but of course “corn” as a general term for grain is European. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/150 "2015-03-27T21:05:58Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Buffalo aren’t North American. Sure they are. :pThe European Bison is pretty rare. Unless you think they are talking about the Water Buffalo, which is doubtful. " also commonly known as the American buffalo". But this website doesnt list either Bison or buffalo. [http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Beastiary](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Beastiary) ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/151 "2015-03-27T21:11:06Z")
I never could with the idea that in the “real world” of the Matrix everybody forgot how to knit a decent sweater. I’m always ripped right out of things by shitty historic costuming. I could NOT cope with _The Tudors_. No. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/152 "2015-03-27T21:29:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure they are. :pThe European Bison is pretty rare. Unless you think they are talking about the Water Buffalo, which is doubtful. " also commonly known as the American buffalo". > > But this website doesnt list either Bison or buffalo. > [http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Beastiary](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Beastiary) It’s just a theory of mine - I know aurochs is a primordial European species of cattle, but based on their description in the book, I suspect that what GRRM is actually referring to is the North American bison. He called mountain lions “shadowcats”, so why not call bison “aurochs”? And I know about “corn” meaning grain, but you also had Lord Commander tossing his raven a “grain of corn”. To me, that means maize. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/153 "2015-03-27T21:31:39Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > And I know about “corn” meaning grain, but you also had Lord Commander tossing his raven a “grain of corn”. To me, that means maize. You have a point there, I mean a “grain of wheat” is a pretty darn small snack. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/154 "2015-03-28T10:21:10Z")
Outdated technology jerks me right out of a story. For example, in _The Ship Who Sang_, you have hideously deformed children who couldn’t survive on their own put into metal shells and trained to become intergalactic spaceships. Spaceships whose computers are still programmed with **tapes**. ---
**Author:** ![DZedNConfused](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dzednconfused/32/15991_2.png) [@DZedNConfused](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DZedNConfused)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/155 "2015-03-28T12:58:19Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > Outdated technology jerks me right out of a story. For example, in _The Ship Who Sang_, you have hideously deformed children who couldn’t survive on their own put into metal shells and trained to become intergalactic spaceships. Spaceships whose computers are still programmed with **tapes**. Yeah, but not all of that can be blamed on the author. That book IS over 20 years old…the original short story is probably closer to 30 or 40 years. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/156 "2015-03-28T13:34:16Z")
> [@DZedNConfused](#): > > Yeah, but not all of that can be blamed on the author. That book IS over 20 years old…the original short story is probably closer to 30 or 40 years. _puts on pedant hat_ Actually the book is almost 50, 55 for the original story. [QUOTE=Wikipedia] The Ship Who Sang (1969) is a science fiction novel by Anne McCaffrey, a fix-up of five stories published 1961 to 1969. [/QUOTE] I guess it jars me so much because in her later stories, especially the Planet Pirates series, McCaffrey came up with encoding programs on ceramic bricks which are more sci-fi-y to my 21st-century sensibilities. When a sci-fi story is so firmly ensconced in the technology of the time it was written in, it ends up looking slightly silly decades later when technology has advanced past that point. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/157 "2015-03-28T14:56:07Z")
New York City has millions of high rise apartment buildings. Why is it that when Detective Danny Reagen or Police Officer Jaime Reagen go into an apartment building, it’s always built on the same plans as every other apartment building they have ever been in. NYC does not build its apartment buildings all with the same floor plan. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/158 "2015-03-28T15:08:06Z")
The actual un-dead kind, not the Raged-up still-living _28 Days Later_ variety. Aren’t actually dead zombies a sort of self-correcting problem? I mean, tissue still rots and degenerates, yes? And wouldn’t being exposed to the elements (as opposed to being tucked away in a coffin six feet under) only accelerate this? Aren’t there wild animal attracted to the scent of carion? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/159 "2015-03-30T15:38:19Z")
[Sunday’s edition](http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2015-03-29) of the online comic Sinfest. Ignore the whole Devil world, Reality Zone, yadda yadda business and the heavy moralizing of the strip in general. I’m more bothered by the fact that a robot needs to _visually look at a map display on her arm_ in order to know where she’s going. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755/160 "2015-03-30T15:59:38Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > Outdated technology jerks me right out of a story. For example, in _The Ship Who Sang_, you have hideously deformed children who couldn’t survive on their own put into metal shells and trained to become intergalactic spaceships. Spaceships whose computers are still programmed with **tapes**. Heck, in Heinlein’s _Rocket Ship Galileo_ and in George O. Smith’s _Venus Equilateral_ series you have space ships being guided by cam-controlled _mechanical computers_, much like the Norden Bombsight. Computer Tapes, and the Digital Computers that go with them, would be a step _up_ in technology. I still love and read the stories. It’s the attitude, not the scientific errors or the obsolete technology. I love the old tech in Jules Verne’s novels, and I simply ignore the errors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mundane-unrealistic-details-that-take-you-out-of-the-batshit-fantastically-unrealistic-setting/715755.md?page=9)