# The Munger Residence Hall Project. Let's talk about it **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 29, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495 "2021-10-29T23:50:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/241 "2021-11-03T14:09:12Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > If they build it, it will stay empty. Students who apply to UCSB aren’t the type to tolerate the conditions in that building. Maybe they should do it then. I kind of like to see massive boondoggles financed by billionaires fail spectacularly. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/242 "2021-11-03T14:12:41Z")
I’m guessing that they’ve done surveys of students and believe that it will be a popular option. Supposedly the grad residences at Michigan that are similar rate highly in those housing review websites. And I don’t think they can just cap enrollment. They already have more students than they can fit in on-campus housing and with increased enrollment at the state schools, they need to expand. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/243 "2021-11-03T14:12:51Z")
If they build it, do you know what kind of students they’ll attract? DO YOU?? [![](https://gizmostory.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Twilight-2008-1140x570.jpg) ](https://gizmostory.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Twilight-2008-1140x570.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/244 "2021-11-03T14:24:01Z")
There’s the problem - Munger **isn’t** financing the whole thing. He’s just tossing in a bunch of seed money. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/245 "2021-11-03T14:27:22Z")
Honestly, financing a dorm should not be a problem. Thirty or more years of dorm fees should be enough to secure debt financing. In fact the dorms I stayed in when in college in the 1980s in upstate New York were financed by bonds issued by the Dormitory Authority of the State of New York. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/246 "2021-11-03T14:57:26Z")
I haven’t read the whole thread, but, as with most of you, this sounds like a Bad Item[sup]TM[/sup] All I can think of is examples from dystopian science fiction, like Brian Aldiss’ **Total Environment** [https://archive.org/details/Galaxy\_v26n03\_1968-02\_modified/page/n55/mode/2up?view=theater](https://archive.org/details/Galaxy_v26n03_1968-02_modified/page/n55/mode/2up?view=theater) Or maybe Neal Stephenson’s first novel, **The Big U** > **[The Big U](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_U)** > > The Big U (1984) is a novel by American writer Neal Stephenson. His first published novel, it is a satire of campus life. > The story chronicles the disillusionment of a number of young intellectuals as they encounter the realities of the higher education establishment parodied in the story. Over time their lives and sanity disintegrate in different ways through a series of escalating events that culminates with a full-scale civil war raging on the campus of American Megaversity. > Told in the firs... > [@](#): > > The events take place at a fictitious big university consisting of a single building (a central complex with eight towers containing student housing), making the university an enclosed universe of its own. Stephenson uses this fact to take what starts as a mostly realistic satire and move it further and further into the realm of improbability, with giant radioactive rats, hordes of bats and a lab-made [railgun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun). > > The book was written while Stephenson attended [Boston University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_University). The fictional campus’ design is based on a BU dormitory, [Warren Towers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Towers).[_[citation needed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)_ ] Located at 700 [Commonwealth Avenue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Avenue_(Boston)) in [Boston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston), [Massachusetts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts), it is one of the largest dorms in the US. I used to live across the river from Warren Towers. It was the first thing I thought of when I read the book, even before I learned that Stephenson had been there. And at least _they_ had windows ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/247 "2021-11-03T15:12:29Z")
I’m not an architect, but I know that the International Building Code (IBC) has a requirement for “emergency escape and rescue openings” (usually windows) for bedrooms up to the fourth floor of a building. These are in addition to the usual main egress door. There are several exceptions and the usual details to consider, but you can refer to IBC Section 1030 to read about them. (A dormitory would be a Use Group R-2.) I am NOT saying that the standard edition of IBC would (or should) apply in this specific jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/248 "2021-11-03T16:22:11Z")
Interesting how dormitory styles have evolved over the years. Some universities have embraced “luxury” apartment-style dorms, which have been criticized for decreasing student interaction and causing “loneliness”, and even decreasing GPAs (although that finding’s been disputed). When I attended a small liberal arts college (back when H. sapiens was still learning to walk upright) the newest dorm also had the most unattractive, cramped living spaces, while the coveted, spacious and light-filled rooms were in the 1890s era cottage. I say, cram 'em in for their own good and that of the planet, like in the photo that accompanies this story, which for some reason reminds me of the stateroom scene in “A Night at the Opera”. > **[The Stresses of Dorm Life](https://reporter.rit.edu/features/stresses-dorm-life)** ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/249 "2021-11-03T22:27:50Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And I don’t think they can just cap enrollment. They already have more students than they can fit in on-campus housing and with increased enrollment at the state schools, they need to expand. There is actually a cap of 25,000 students, although it seem that they have only recently hit that particular limit. > Related Fact: UCSB however is different than the rest of the UC in that it has a local cap on its enrollment as part of agreements with local groups and governments. UCSB asserts they have not exceeded the 25,000 3 quarter average (though it seems they’ve met it ahead of schedule, probably because of the enrollment growth pushed by the State of California). From [How 50 Years of State of California Policy Led to Munger Hall](https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qiu48u/how_50_years_of_state_of_california_policy_led_to/) ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/250 "2021-11-04T04:30:03Z")
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i\_was\_a\_university\_of\_michigan\_student\_who\_lived/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_was_a_university_of_michigan_student_who_lived/) > I was a University of Michigan student who lived in UM’s windowless Munger Graduate Residence. It is exactly as bad as people say it is. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/251 "2021-11-04T04:37:20Z")
Tour of Munger residence at U. Michigan [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/__cfVWiAxSU/maxresdefault.jpg "MASSIVE 7 BEDROOM COLLEGE APARTMENT TOUR - University of Michigan") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__cfVWiAxSU) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5iRaug6kB14/maxresdefault.jpg "College Dorm Room Tour 2020 | University of Michigan") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iRaug6kB14) Bear in mind that the graduate dorms at UM are far _larger_ than the UCSB plan, they have private bathrooms, and _more windows_ proportionally. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/252 "2021-11-04T04:38:58Z")
I’m starting to think there may be a few missing facts in this conversation, based on an interview I saw earlier today with Munger (sorry, can’t find it on line now so can’t give a link). Anyway, I think it would be worth getting factual answers to these questions: 1. Munger claims that his “artificial windows” give light that is indistinguishable from sunlight. What are the details on this? Are the lights automatically programmed to mimic sunrise/sunset light levels throughout the year? Munger says students can control the light level. How is that different from being able to control “ordinary” lights a student might have in their dorm room? A key issue here is whether students who physiologically suffer without steady exposure to natural light would need to bring in their own (possibly energy-hogging, fire-hazardous) therapeutic lamps, or would be able to function in a healthy fashion based on what is provided in every room. (2) How many entrances and exits ARE there, for regular use? I keep hearing that there are only 2, but other sources claim more. This isn’t just about emergency exits in case of fire; how many entrance/egress options are available on a daily basis? Is it really only two? (3) What are student choices going to be with respect to whether they choose to live in this dorm? I’ve seen defenses of the dorm that say: “students can choose not to live there” and “it’s only for 30 weeks.” Is that really true? I had no say in where I lived as a freshman in college; nor did my son, 40 years later. We both had limited opportunity to choose on-campus residences from our sophomore year onward, but even then there was an element of “luck of the draw” - you might get your first choice housing, or you might not. What if students largely choose NOT to live in this dorm? Will they be forced to? Accurate answers to these three questions would help me decide whether it’s merely suboptimal, but not really that egregious, or completely unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/253 "2021-11-04T10:06:21Z")
(4) Will the ‘artificial’ windows, aka video screens, carry targeted advertising, by any chance? You sure about that? This looks a like a revenue stream just waiting to be exploited. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/254 "2021-11-04T11:54:17Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > It’s worth noting architect Denis McFadden’s statement in the LA Times article that > > > **the building is not passively habitable: In the event of a power outage the entire building — all 4,500 residents — would have to be completely evacuated.** So, someone who knows more than we do thinks it’s not safe to leave students there without the HVAC. 🤷‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/255 "2021-11-04T12:42:52Z")
So, less _Brazil_ than _Black Mirror_: [http://manosnegras.com/anahuac2020/alexandro/bluiishweb3/imgs/post\_img/bm\_post.png](http://manosnegras.com/anahuac2020/alexandro/bluiishweb3/imgs/post_img/bm_post.png) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/256 "2021-11-05T13:48:46Z")
Yes, but why aren’t we roasting the USC administration, which hasn’t turned down the money and it fact is voicing its appreciation for Munger? They seem to think this is a wonderful idea. Instead we choose to paint a man who has been exceedingly generous over decades as an arrogant prick? Makes me never want to give my own money away. I’ll just leave it to my kids. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/257 "2021-11-05T13:49:19Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yes, but why aren’t we roasting the USC administration, Aren’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/258 "2021-11-05T13:51:27Z")
By the way, a few days ago I got communication from my youngest college. A dorm had flooded, total evacuation of the dorm. Most of them are being put up at a hotel and bused back to the school (the hotel is a few miles away, there isn’t one close to the school). Others are choosing to camp out with friends on the floor of on campus dorms or slightly off campus apartments. After one night, have the dorm was deemed habitable - the cleanup from the other half will take some time. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/259 "2021-11-05T14:04:26Z")
When I was in college, sometimes they’d use a hotel for overflow when attendance was slightly higher than expected. Colleges are like airlines in that they don’t know precisely how many people will show up. Some will pay the deposit intending to attend the school but might decide to go elsewhere. And sometimes it takes a week or two before they figure this all out. I remember an empty double room down the hall from me freshman year. Meanwhile, I was in a triple with three other guys, meaning four in a room meant for three. After a couple of weeks, two from my room went to the double and my roommate and I stretched out in a slightly too-large room. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495/260 "2021-11-05T14:26:49Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Instead we choose to paint a man who has been exceedingly generous over decades as an arrogant prick? It’s possible to be a generous donor and an arrogant prick at the same time. Hell, it’s even possible his design makes sense, and he’s still an arrogant prick. Have you kept up with the video interviews and articles? He calls people who disagree with him “idiots,” says he’d rather have money than love, and generally appears to be a most unpleasant individual. (Here’s [one recent article](https://www.architecturalrecord.com/articles/15378-exclusive-interview-with-billionaire-charlie-munger-on-controversial-ucsb-dorm).) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-munger-residence-hall-project-lets-talk-about-it/953495.md?page=14)