# The Muppets! New show on ABC **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209 "2015-09-22T14:43:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/41 "2015-09-23T23:21:08Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Nothing in last night’s show struck me as more “adult” than [Miss Piggy pouncing on Rudolph Nureyev in a steam room](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EJ1SBAO1HU). or the Rachel Welch episode. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/42 "2015-09-24T03:59:31Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I never saw the original TV shows and have watched a few of the movies, so I’m probably not one to criticize, but I didn’t like it so much either. It was too adult. I get what they were doing and it was well-done but the spirit wasn’t what I expected or wanted from the Muppets. You might be surprised to learn that the Muppet Show pilot was called [Sex and Violence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Muppet_Show:_Sex_and_Violence). I’ve got the first 3 seasons of the Muppet Show on DVD. The Muppet Show was designed to be a little edgier than Henson was able to get away with in his other endeavors. But over the course of the movies (particularly the ones since his death) the Muppets have tended to get it’s edges sanded down and gotten sweeter. Let’s remember that the original show regularly consisted of Kermit regularly losing his shit, Scooter blackmailing Kermit to keep his job, Fozzie bombing onstage, Statler and Waldorf mocking the proceedings, variety show acts going haywire, Beaker getting abused, Piggy going around slugging anyone who pissed her off, etc. etc. That’s not to say anyone has to like this new show, but I find the various claims that this new show is too adult or cynical should go back and rediscover the source material. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/43 "2015-09-24T07:22:20Z")
I liked “Muppets Tonight” better, but that isn’t saying very much. > [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > It also looks like some people are all buttmad that the Muppets are “adult” now. I’m pretty sure we all realize this on this board but the Muppets were on late night TV quite a bit years ago: [Last Gasps in The Land of Gorch](https://vimeo.com/24652753). Yes, they’re Muppets, but that’s not Kermit and the gang. And the Gorch characters on SNL, although they had possibilities, actually were not successful, a major reason being that none of the SNL writers liked writing for them. [Henson himself said](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_of_Gorch#Decline), > [@](#): > > When they were writing for us, I had the feeling they were writing normal sitcom stuff, which is really boring and bland. … Yeah, it just never jelled with the particular writers we were working with, but at no time did I ever lose my respect for the show. I always liked what they were doing. Alan Zweibel said, > [@](#): > > [Michael O’Donoghue] was lynching Big Bird. And that’s how we all felt about the Muppets. Al Franken and Tom Davis and I were the rookie writers, and the others always rigged it so we were the ones who wrote the Muppet sketches. Franken and Davis? That explains a lot! 😃 Frank Oz said, > [@](#): > > There was good and bad. The bad unfortunately was that I think we didn’t really belong on “Saturday Night Live.” I think our very explosive, more cartoony comedy didn’t jive with the kind of Second City casual laid-back comedy, so the writers had a lot of trouble writing for us. They weren’t used to that kind of Muppet writing. > [@Quimby](#): > > I liked it but there was an undercurrent of meanness and cynicism that didn’t feel very Muppets. This. > [@B.Serum](#): > > You might be surprised to learn that the Muppet Show pilot was called [Sex and Violence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Muppet_Show:_Sex_and_Violence). > > \ > > Let’s remember that the original show regularly consisted of Kermit regularly losing his shit, Scooter blackmailing Kermit to keep his job, Fozzie bombing onstage, Statler and Waldorf mocking the proceedings, variety show acts going haywire, Beaker getting abused, Piggy going around slugging anyone who pissed her off, etc. etc. That’s basically all slapstick and cartoony, like Oz said. There’s no comparison between that and the new show. > [@](#): > > That’s not to say anyone has to like this new show, but I find the various claims that this new show is too adult or cynical should go back and rediscover the source material. I have the DVDs, just like you. Perhaps it’s you who should reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/44 "2015-09-24T17:02:10Z")
I saw the show, wasn’t impressed, and won’t be watching it again. I don’t particular care if the Muppet gang has chosen to go a more adult route, but I preferred it when they aimed at the kids but (like the old Warner Brothers cartoons) lobbed in some jokes that only older viewers would get. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/45 "2015-09-24T17:55:50Z")
I was underwhelmed. I may watch another episode if I think of it but I am not expecting to make it a must-see. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/46 "2015-09-24T17:57:32Z")
I liked it! It was consistently amusing and had some laugh-out-loud moments (mostly involving Fozzie). Will definitely watch again. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/47 "2015-09-24T18:52:55Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > I enjoyed the show as well. I didn’t think it was the greatest of greats but it had moments and it has potential. I like the faux “behind the scenes” The Office/30 Rock vibe OK. I don’t think it’s necessarily dated since it seems like the only one really making 3 camera laugh trackers is Chuck Lorre. It will be fine if they don’t lean on the talking heads bits too much – I just remember two from last night and that’s OK by me. > > It also looks like some people are all buttmad that the Muppets are “adult” now. I’m pretty sure we all realize this on this board but the Muppets were on late night TV quite a bit years ago: [Last Gasps in The Land of Gorch](https://vimeo.com/24652753). Though I do admit that the most memorable jokes to me include Zoot in the meeting and Fozzy talking about being a bear looking for love. > > I think it may serve them better if they used an SNL-type show as a framing device as opposed to a late night talk show. I guess the talk show gives them an opportunity to focus in on the characters a little bit but the SNL-type show would give them a bigger range that they can work with. I would guess that they are going with the talk show to distance themselves a bit from 30 Rock. More to distance themselves from “Muppets Tonight” which was exactly what you describe. That and having Piggy be central to the show-within-a-show means that she and Kermit are forced to continue working closely with each other through the awkwardness. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/48 "2015-09-24T19:19:47Z")
Bad voices, bad jokes, bad episode. One more chance to convince me. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/49 "2015-09-24T20:54:54Z")
I agree the original Muppet Show and the movies had jokes for adults but they also had an innocence and optimism this doesn’t have. I didn’t hate the new show and plan to keep watching but it just felt off. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/50 "2015-09-24T21:14:44Z")
Really meh. I like Riki Lindhome a lot. But that bit she was stuck in was awful. Her “parents” did a terrible job. The format sucks big time. Even the jokes about the format have already been done- and better. Even if they dropped the talking to the camera stuff, they’d have a long way to go to match _The Larry Sanders Show_. The noise level was also too high. Couldn’t follow the dialogue at times. If it doesn’t get better right away, it’s getting dropped from the DVR. It could easily turn into this seasons _Michael J. Fox Show_. They should get the person who did the first trailer and put them in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/51 "2015-09-25T04:33:54Z")
I’m rooting for it to be a success just because then Disney might release seasons 4 & 5 of The Muppet Show, which were fantastic. I now the problem is rights issues, but Disney has more money than God. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/52 "2015-09-25T07:28:49Z")
I caught it On Demand. I think the premise has promise, but it’s just…well, Muppets aren’t supposed to act/be like that! I think that’s what’s freaking out a lot of people, including me. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbazine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbazine/32/362_2.png) [@Bumbazine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbazine)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/53 "2015-09-26T19:22:37Z")
Saw it for the first time last night. Changed the channel half way through. Typical Hollywood sitcom writing. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/54 "2015-09-30T05:11:33Z")
I watched the second episode tonight. I think despite its flaws, it is fun, edgy enough to be interesting and still I can watch it with my 11 year old. Also, I love Big Mean Carl. He had some wonderful lines. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/55 "2015-09-30T13:31:39Z")
> [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](#): > > I watched the second episode tonight. I think despite its flaws, it is fun, edgy enough to be interesting and still I can watch it with my 11 year old. > > Also, I love Big Mean Carl. He had some wonderful lines. I liked the second episode more than the first. And Big Mean Carl the receptionist was my favorite. I can see why people my find the “adult” stuff weird, but I don’t think any of it is too far out there. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/56 "2015-09-30T14:20:56Z")
I don’t know, there are moments that are definitely not the old Muppets we grew up with — Kermit saying “Out of my way, dork” to Josh Groban is quite a departure for his character — but it’s not bothering me. The show has a long way to go before it can be described as cynical or mean-spirited. Even when they’re cowering from Miss Piggy, they still seem to be having fun. Just my opinion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/57 "2015-09-30T14:26:02Z")
the “band is happy, legally now” was funny. I like some of it… its just an adjustment to watch Muppets act like adults… its odd. but I kinda enjoy it and will give it a few more views. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/58 "2015-09-30T14:34:09Z")
I’ve enjoyed the first couple episodes. I’ll give it a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/59 "2015-09-30T14:37:02Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > the “band is happy, legally now” was funny. I like some of it… its just an adjustment to watch Muppets act like adults… its odd. but I kinda enjoy it and will give it a few more views. There were a couple of good throw away lines that shows the premise has promise. “But, they’re called the _Electric_ Mayhem…” ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209/60 "2015-09-30T14:57:59Z")
The second episode was funnier than the first, but the whole Fozzy storyline was horrible and mean spirited. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-muppets-new-show-on-abc/732209.md?page=4)