# The Myron Cope Memorial Steelers March to the Super Bowl Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 7, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116 "2008-08-07T02:23:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![dawson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@dawson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dawson)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/261 "2008-12-16T03:31:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Agreed. Was it a touchdown? Probably. > > Was there “indisputable evidence”? Not a fucking chance. > > There is a rule in the NFL rulebook that says the guy only needs to have possession and two feet in the endzone if he doesn’t have forward motion - ie., the ball only has to break the plane if the guy is moving toward the plane, which Holmes never was during the catch - and if the officiating crew or Mike Pereira had defended the call on those grounds, I’d have no problem with it. > > However, they didn’t; they just claimed there _was_ indisputable visual evidence, which there indisputably _wasn’t._ The indisputable evidence was there. What was in question was if Holmes had both feet on the ground in the endzone. That was obvious from the replays. Most everyone (including me) assumed that it was not ruled a touchdown on the field because of the ball not breaking the plane. However as you mentoined that is a moot point, as long as the receiver has two feet on the ground in the endzone while in possesion of the ball. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/262 "2008-12-16T05:06:12Z")
> [@dawson](#): > > The indisputable evidence was there. What was in question was if Holmes had both feet on the ground in the endzone. That was obvious from the replays. Most everyone (including me) assumed that it was not ruled a touchdown on the field because of the ball not breaking the plane. However as you mentoined that is a moot point, as long as the receiver has two feet on the ground in the endzone while in possesion of the ball. Huh? If you didn’t think the ball broke the plane either, clearly it wasn’t indisputable. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/263 "2008-12-16T05:13:33Z")
> [@dawson](#): > > The indisputable evidence was there. What was in question was if Holmes had both feet on the ground in the endzone. That was obvious from the replays. Most everyone (including me) assumed that it was not ruled a touchdown on the field because of the ball not breaking the plane. However as you mentoined that is a moot point, as long as the receiver has two feet on the ground in the endzone while in possesion of the ball. Only in the back of the endzone, when the ball has already broken the plane on the way to the receiver. As you can imagine, there has been quite a bit of discussion around here about this, along with 379 different people quoting the relevant rules. :dubious: No matter, as poor as that call was, it didn’t cost us the game, we cost us the game by going to the goddamn fucking prevent on that last drive instead of sticking with what was working on defense, and the Steelers won the game by producing when it mattered. It’s often been said that it’s better to be lucky than good. The Steelers are both. Here’s hoping that y’all win out, we do the same and then take care of Denver, putting us back at the confluence for the Divisional Playoffs. Then we’ll see if the 3rd time really is the charm. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/264 "2008-12-16T05:19:26Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > No matter, as poor as that call was, it didn’t cost us the game, we cost us the game by going to the goddamn fucking prevent on that last drive instead of sticking with what was working on defense, and the Steelers won the game by producing when it mattered. I bet it’s all Kyle Boller’s fault somehow. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/265 "2008-12-16T05:56:19Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > No matter, as poor as that call was, it didn’t cost us the game, we cost us the game by going to the goddamn fucking prevent on that last drive instead of sticking with what was working on defense, and the Steelers won the game by producing when it mattered. This is exactly right. Here’s what i wrote about this incident yesterday, in the [NFL Week 15](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=497501) thread: > [@NFL Week 15](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/477177/6): > > 1. The Ravens deserved to lose the game. They beat themselves by allowing a sack to take them out of field goal range, then letting the Steelers march 90+ yards down the field. I blame the defensive play calling; i’ll never understand why Baltimore insists on playing a loose, prevent-type defense in situations like this, rather than using the sort of aggressive, blitzing defense that had kept Pittsburgh out of the end-zone all day. It’s really fucking frustrating, because the Ravens seem to do this all the time. They did exactly the same thing against the Redskins last week, and suddenly a team that had made virtually no yards all game began marching down the field. Luckily, in that game it didn’t really matter because Washington were too far behind for a score to make a difference anyway. But my friend and i were yelling in frustration at the TV for the Ravens to play their regular defense. Here’s the rest of my take on the Pittsburgh touchdown, also copied from the other thread: > [@NFL Week 15](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-15/477177/6): > > 1. I initially thought the pass was a touchdown. When the officials made the call that it was no touchdown, i was happy, but rather surprised. But then i saw the replay, and it seemed to me that they probably made the right call. > > 3.If the officials HAD called a touchdown on the field, i wouldn’t have been surprised, and i also wouldn’t have been too upset if that decision had been upheld on review. It was so close that i think it would have been reasonable to let the call stand. > > But, given that the call on the field was “No touchdown,” i cannot see any way that the officials in the booth could reasonably overturn it. The standard for overturning a call is that there needs to be incontrovertible evidence that the call on the field was incorrect. I thought that the slow-motion replay demonstrated that the officials made the right call, and there is NO WAY you will ever convince me that there was sufficient evidence to overturn the call on review. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/266 "2008-12-16T07:06:46Z")
What is it with that, anyway? So many coaches play so scared in the last minutes of a game. It’s so consistently ineffecitve, or less effective than just sticking with what clearly works that I don’t understand why it’s done. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/267 "2008-12-16T07:37:23Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What is it with that, anyway? So many coaches play so scared in the last minutes of a game. It’s so consistently ineffecitve, or less effective than just sticking with what clearly works that I don’t understand why it’s done. I really just think that it’s a fear of giving up the big play. As you are no doubt aware, the main rationale behind the “prevent” defense is to maintain a fairly spartan defensive line, and keep plenty of guys for the secondary so that you don’t give up big plays downfield. Of course, by doing this you give the QB plenty of time to move around in the pocket, and you give the wide receivers and tight ends lots of space for short runs across the middle. And, as Baltimore did on Sunday and last week, you end up giving up a lot of 5 and 7 and 10 yard plays, while preventing the other team from making a really big play downfield. It just seems to me that some coaches haven’t woken up to the fact that, with 2 minutes to go and a good offense on the field, giving up 10 or 12 short plays is just as bad as giving up one long one. In the case of a team like Baltimore’s, the defense works so much better when it’s being aggressive that i think it’s worth risking the big play in order to do what you do best. Apparently the Ravens’ coaching staff disagrees. I guess they’re worried about criticism. If you give up an 80-yard play for a touchdown, the coaches will likely be criticized for a poor defensive pattern. They will be asked why they didn’t play a safer, “prevent” defense. On the other hand, if they play “prevent” defense and the other team scores, it’s harder for the critics to point to a single bad call. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/268 "2008-12-16T08:04:46Z")
They always seem to overestimate the amount of time left, though. I can see the value in playing prevent coverage with 30 seconds left when the opponent has to drive 70 yards. But teams treat the opponent needing to travel 40 yards in a minute and a half the same way it seems. It’s cowardly, most of the time. They want to avoid being criticized for allowing their team to give up a 50 yard TD pass that loses the game, but appear to be willing to accept 4 15 yard passes instead for the same result. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/269 "2008-12-19T06:32:27Z")
I don’t know how many Steelers fans here check this out already but I regularly follow [Dale Lolley’s blog](http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/). He’s a reporter following the Steelers and has a lot of interesting insight into the team and some of the behind-the-scenes stuff. It gets updated every day or two during the season. ---
**Author:** ![dawson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@dawson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dawson)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/270 "2008-12-20T05:28:39Z")
> [@HongKongFooey](#): > > I don’t know how many Steelers fans here check this out already but I regularly follow [Dale Lolley’s blog](http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/). He’s a reporter following the Steelers and has a lot of interesting insight into the team and some of the behind-the-scenes stuff. It gets updated every day or two during the season. Thanks for the link! ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/271 "2008-12-21T18:53:04Z")
These guys are killing me! Just killing me. Ben, two fumbles? OK, guys, step up, we can still win. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/272 "2008-12-21T19:03:23Z")
Wow! A tremendous catch to put us back in the game! ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/273 "2008-12-21T19:24:41Z")
How did we miss the field goal? 10-7 at the half isn’t too bad, but 10-10 would been better. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/274 "2008-12-21T19:25:52Z")
The offense is so frustrating. When they try, they are unstoppable, but they never really seem to try. And when they do, they fuck it up - this is the second game where Big Ben spiked it for no reason at all. It will be interesting to see which offense shows up the playoffs. If we can play no-huddle all the time, Steelers will destroy everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/275 "2008-12-21T19:29:10Z")
I do wonder why we don’t go no-huddle more often, we seem to do so much better. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/276 "2008-12-21T19:33:44Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > I do wonder why we don’t go no-huddle more often, we seem to do so much better. Difficult to run when you have a line comprised of Big Fat Road Graders (as you do), rather than Relatively Athletic Guys Who Specialize In Pass Protection (like the Colts). Your linemen are best suited to “knock down guy in front, help running back to his feet, return to huddle, rinse, repeat” than “pull left, check position of running back going out to catch screen pass, run downfield and paste safety, run back to line”, in other words. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/277 "2008-12-21T21:06:42Z")
☹ No home field advantage for us! IMO, we were outplayed today. Ben’s fumbles didn’t help. At least we should end the season with a win. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/278 "2008-12-21T22:39:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Difficult to run when you have a line comprised of Big Fat Road Graders (as you do), rather than Relatively Athletic Guys Who Specialize In Pass Protection (like the Colts). > > Your linemen are best suited to “knock down guy in front, help running back to his feet, return to huddle, rinse, repeat” than “pull left, check position of running back going out to catch screen pass, run downfield and paste safety, run back to line”, in other words. Very true. A lesser factor is that, as good as the defense is, it puts way more pressure on the D if the no-huddle sputters. A few years ago, the first year running no-huddle, we were getting burned deep quite often because the D wasn’t getting enough rest between series. The front seven couldn’t get enough pressure to help the secondary. Polamalu has mentioned this year that with an explosive D, they need the time to recharge and they aren’t getting it with the running game being so poor this year. Obviously it hasn’t hurt them that much but with the playoffs looming the units will need to be firing on all cylinders if they’re going to take down teams like Balt. or Indy. Speeaking of the O-line, the pass protection has been much more solid lately (still sub-par though). Looking ahead to next year, I think Stapleton and Kemoeatu will be much better with a year of experience behind them; Hartwig and Starks have looked good. I think they should cut ties with Kendall Simmons and Willie Colon, move Marvel Smith to the right and draft a stud RT to spend a year either learning behind him or filling in if Marvel’s back flares up again. I know the D-line is getting old but 3-4 DEs can be found in the later rounds, the o-line is hampering the entire offense. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/279 "2008-12-22T01:40:27Z")
So next week is meaningless to you guys, right? #2 seed the whole way? Put in your third stringers and practice squad players and still beat us by 30. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116/280 "2008-12-28T17:56:07Z")
I failed to post last week and we lost. That makes me 3-0 in a post-win correlation. So I figure I’d better post now, just to make sure we pull it off this week. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-myron-cope-memorial-steelers-march-to-the-super-bowl-thread/459116.md?page=15)