# The mystery of the trinity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373 "2014-02-02T20:05:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/301 "2014-04-21T17:57:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > ISTM the ultimate Mystery of the Trinity is, “Who cares?” Jesus never said you have to master abstruse points of religious philosophy to get into Heaven; he said you have to be as a little child, and little children are not philosophers. Children are perhaps the greatest philosophers ever till we conform them to our will, then God has to undo all that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/302 "2014-04-21T17:58:26Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > YOu really want me to have to look up the stoning of Stephan and the forces of God that Elijah shared with the person who thought the battle was lost, I’m sure I coudl come up with more. > > If you insist I will but I really would rather not. I’m not interested in your personal alternate realities and wildly off interpretations. I would like you to cite where in the Bible it _directly_ says that God creates alternate realities for different people. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/303 "2014-04-21T18:01:59Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > You are missing a critical part, that God has the power to split reality so that what one experiences is not what another does. If you are ready to have Love in your heart and be a child of Love He gives you a different reality, if not you remain ‘behind’, only suffering what you have caused yourself, nothing more, and also limited by what is needed for you to realize that there is another way. So - its back to being “my fault” and “I don’t do enough to be granted this alternate reality” - typical. If “God is love” - then God is responsible for showing it - I shouldnt have to beg for it. If he/it needs to use “evil” to show “love” - then he is an evil sadistic bastard that I want no part of. Same BS as “you don’t have enough faith …” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/304 "2014-04-21T18:02:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Children are perhaps the greatest philosophers ever till we conform them to our will, then God has to undo all that stuff. If you look up “philosophy” in the dictionary instead of making up your own definition to suit your needs you might understand how much you have insulted the great philosophers throughout recorded history. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/305 "2014-04-21T18:05:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m not interested in your personal alternate realities and wildly off interpretations. I would like you to cite where in the Bible it _directly_ says that God creates alternate realities for different people. My personal views are really off subject of what you asked or my replies to you. I’ve expressed 2 of what I believe are many where God creates a alternate reality. Are you unfamiliar with these 2 situations that I need to take you by the hand to them, or do you disagree with my interpretation of them? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/306 "2014-04-21T18:06:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you look up “philosophy” in the dictionary instead of making up your own definition to suit your needs you might understand how much you have insulted the great philosophers throughout recorded history. Or complemented them ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/307 "2014-04-21T18:12:33Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > My personal views are really off subject of what you asked or my replies to you. I’ve expressed 2 of what I believe are many where God creates a alternate reality. > > Are you unfamiliar with these 2 situations that I need to take you by the hand to them, or do you disagree with my interpretation of them? How about just citing the stories and show how they prove an alternate reality? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/308 "2014-04-21T18:15:45Z")
> [@simster](#): > > So - its back to being “my fault” and “I don’t do enough to be granted this alternate reality” - typical. > > If “God is love” - then God is responsible for showing it - I shouldnt have to beg for it. If he/it needs to use “evil” to show “love” - then he is an evil sadistic bastard that I want no part of. > > Same BS as “you don’t have enough faith …” Until you achieve self awareness what differences does it make? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/309 "2014-04-21T18:22:46Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Until you achieve self awareness what differences does it make? I am plenty self aware - thankyouverymuch - what I am not is beholden to some ‘God’ who likes to play games - evil games at taht. It’s one thing to require believers to behave a certain way - its another to create evil specifically to “teach them a lesson” - or to do murderous things to innocents so that others will come to appreciate his “love”. Its ridiculous on the face - and its not biblical (where all this ‘grace’ and “god so loved the world” BS come into play that you seemed to have forgotten - or maybe thats an alternate reality). ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/310 "2014-04-21T18:23:40Z")
> [@simster](#): > > How about just citing the stories and show how they prove an alternate reality? The stoning of Stephan is the easy one, Acts 7: 54-60 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/311 "2014-04-21T18:25:00Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I am plenty self aware - thankyouverymuch So you are aware of yourself as a child of God, welcome brother or sister and happy birthday. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/312 "2014-04-21T18:29:59Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > So you are aware of yourself as a child of God, welcome brother or sister and happy birthday. nm - not falling for the bait. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/313 "2014-04-21T18:32:32Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The stoning of Stephan is the easy one, Acts 7: 54-60 And how does this show “an alternate reality” being created by God? For others - since Kanicbird seems unwillng - here is the full passage - [QUOTE=Acts 7: 54-60] The Stoning of Stephen 54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/314 "2014-04-21T18:45:26Z")
> [@simster](#): > > nm - not falling for the bait. No bait, if you are not self aware yet that’s fine with me, my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/315 "2014-04-21T18:48:55Z")
> [@simster](#): > > And how does this show “an alternate reality” being created by God? > > For others - since Kanicbird seems unwillng - here is the full passage - I beleive I cited those verses in post # 310, so why do you state I am unwilling? Please answer that or please retract your statement. And to answer you question even though you have outright lied about me in this post, What doe Stephan see and what does the Pharisees see, are they consistent? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/316 "2014-04-21T19:06:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > … what does the Pharisees see … How are we supposed to know? Can you show how we are supposed to know what they see? No mention is made of that. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/317 "2014-04-21T19:13:10Z")
> [@For You](#): > > How are we supposed to know? Can you show how we are supposed to know what they see? No mention is made of that. I know the Elijsh verse will require some time, would you accept 2 Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/318 "2014-04-21T19:15:50Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I know the Elijsh verse will require some time, would you accept 2 Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, A delusion is not an alternate reality. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/319 "2014-04-21T19:16:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I beleive I cited those verses in post # 310, so why do you state I am unwilling? Please answer that or please retract your statement. > > And to answer you question even though you have outright lied about me in this post, What doe Stephan see and what does the Pharisees see, are they consistent? Where did I lie? You stated “the verses” - you did not post them here for debate/discussion - IOW - you could be looking at an alternate translation or any number of things - simply stating “chapter verse of X” is not a “cite” as requested. In any event - where in the verses does it state what the Pharisees saw? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/320 "2014-04-21T19:48:52Z")
This thread is two shakes of my irritable head from being locked as accomplishing nothing. Next time I check this thread there better be some debate or I’m shooting it in the head. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373.md?page=17)