# The mystery of the trinity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373 "2014-02-02T20:05:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/161 "2014-04-05T11:28:29Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The Bible makes it clear that every act of creation is from God, this includes the Bible, but also includes all other books and writings. > > So the question is not if the Bible is the Word of God, because everything is, but the question is it’s purpose, why it was given to us. The answer is that it is for instruction. So is everything else, but it is the lessons that differ, or at least the teaching method used to reach a people. > > So the answer has always been instead of trying to elevate the Bible above other scared texts, but to raise other sacred texts up to the level of the Bible - because it is all from God. And you were told or read something another human said ,taught or wrote. You believe it was God but have no proof. You choose to believe the other humans and that is your right, but that doesn’t make it fact. I could write and say God told me something(he didn’t) but there are some who would believe me. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/162 "2014-04-05T11:36:59Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Interpretation is a function of the Holy Spirit, and why Jesus stated the Father is greater then Him. It applies to us also. We, as you rightly pointed out, have various ways of interpreting scriptures. We have free will to interpreted it in any emotion, each one will lead to a different interpretation. > > The emotion of Love is the one that is the Spirit of God (as God is Love), it is the Holy Spirit and it will guide the child towards the truth of the scriptures. > > In this I believe the mystery of the trinity is revealed, The same spirit in Jesus is the same spirit of the Father, and the same spirit that we all will chose eventually. In this guidance the child will make mistakes and will not know everything, so the Father will be greater always, however it is the Father and Child in the Spirit of Love that is the more complete picture of God 3 in 1. > > But trinity is not the complete story, as we too are part of that, scripturally Jesus ‘marries’ the church (so the two become one) and gives us the Holy Spirit as well. We are as much as that trinity as Jesus as the Father because we have the same spirit - Love. > > From that we must learn how to live in that spirit, which is trusting God and taking chances walking in Love to the best we know how, and learning God’s ways as we grow in Love. Of course that is your belief but it still is belief not fact or you could prove it. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/163 "2014-04-05T11:43:21Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > And you were told or read something another human said ,taught or wrote. You believe it was God but have no proof. You choose to believe the other humans and that is your right, but that doesn’t make it fact. I could write and say God told me something(he didn’t) but there are some who would believe me. Much closer then **Tacit Knowledge** ’s post #158 which sounds like it comes directly out of the atheists handbook of standard replies. But still missing an aspect. We are gods since we are God’s children, so we have the ability to know certain truths and interpretations, we have the ability to connect with God and be one with God - further explaining the trinity. In that there is leading to certain books or other works that will become text books for the student. Like any text book it is meant to have a teacher that helps guide the student, however the student and teacher are one with each other. This is not limited to the Bible or even to things considered sacred texts, but can be any work. So much of it comes from within. In that I’m not saying that angelic visits are not real, but perhaps that is just some extra help. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/164 "2014-04-05T16:28:20Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Actually if you read John 10 and think about what was written, you will note he didn’t consider himself more God than any other human. The Psalmist is quoted as saying I said you are gods and sons of god, 2,000 years a go the word god didn’t mean as it does today. It seemed to be one (or something) with power. If that were the stance of virtually any Christian denomination, then I would even consider re-joining the church. But they all tell me Jesus, a man, was God. If he wasn’t, their entire philosophical underpinning falls apart. They won’t simply let the man (for lack of a better term) speak for himself. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/165 "2014-04-06T12:23:28Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Much closer then **Tacit Knowledge** ’s post #158 which sounds like it comes directly out of the atheists handbook of standard replies. But still missing an aspect. > > We are gods since we are God’s children, so we have the ability to know certain truths and interpretations, we have the ability to connect with God and be one with God - further explaining the trinity. > > In that there is leading to certain books or other works that will become text books for the student. Like any text book it is meant to have a teacher that helps guide the student, however the student and teacher are one with each other. This is not limited to the Bible or even to things considered sacred texts, but can be any work. > > So much of it comes from within. In that I’m not saying that angelic visits are not real, but perhaps that is just some extra help. And a proven fact they are all humans. just claiming something is from God doesn’t make it so.That is your belief in another human, and if it helps you to live a better life then so be it. Belief is not necessarily the truth and I prefer fact to fiction. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/166 "2014-04-06T22:05:58Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > And a proven fact they are all humans. just claiming something is from God doesn’t make it so.That is your belief in another human, and if it helps you to live a better life then so be it. Belief is not necessarily the truth and I prefer fact to fiction. Thank you, but to quote Adam Savage of Mythbusters, I reject your version of reality and substitute my own. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/167 "2014-04-06T22:27:50Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > And a proven fact they are all humans. just claiming something is from God doesn’t make it so.That is your belief in another human, and if it helps you to live a better life then so be it. Belief is not necessarily the truth and I prefer fact to fiction. This also shows that you didn’t read or understand my post, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. But it is not in reading another human’s words but it is in interpreting them, which is internal. Which is what you do also 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/168 "2014-04-07T10:20:51Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > But it is not in reading another human’s words but it is in interpreting them, which is internal. And man, do you have some mad interpretation skillz, grrl! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/169 "2014-04-07T10:48:01Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > And a proven fact they are all humans. Really? Again with the “proven fact” claim? You don’t know that. Where is your “proof”? 😉 I would tend to agree with you that all spiritual writings are created by humans, but your insistence that this is a “proven fact” indicates that you do not know what either of those words mean which, in turn, makes your assertion worthless. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/170 "2014-04-07T11:34:25Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > And man, do you have some mad interpretation skillz, grrl! I hope to get better at it ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/171 "2014-04-07T12:12:31Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Really? Again with the “proven fact” claim? You don’t know that. Where is your “proof”? 😉 > > I would tend to agree with you that all spiritual writings are created by humans, but your insistence that this is a “proven fact” indicates that you do not know what either of those words mean which, in turn, makes your assertion worthless. Does this mean because some human we are sure that they were humans wrote something it is the truth? What were the writers if not humans? This would mean the Gospel writers were not humans. They didn’t have human thoughts etc…Can you prove it was not written by humans? Belief is not fact. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/172 "2014-04-07T12:31:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Really? Again with the “proven fact” claim? You don’t know that. Where is your “proof”? 😉 > > I would tend to agree with you that all spiritual writings are created by humans, but your insistence that this is a “proven fact” indicates that you do not know what either of those words mean which, in turn, makes your assertion worthless. Would it not be the default assumption that humans wrote the Bible, considering the complete lack of evidence that any other entities with the ability to do so exist? ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/173 "2014-04-07T15:34:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would it not be the default assumption that humans wrote the Bible, considering the complete lack of evidence that any other entities with the ability to do so exist? Agreed. I can’t “prove” that the “Good Book” didn’t involve spiritual entities. I also can’t “prove” that there are no unicorns anywhere on earth. But it’s all quite moot. The Hole-ish Babble is taken by certain religious to be totally reliable and morally instructive. I don’t know whether to laugh, cry, or vomit. At least parts of it would be “demonic” if that even has any meaning. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/174 "2014-04-07T21:11:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would it not be the default assumption that humans wrote the Bible, considering the complete lack of evidence that any other entities with the ability to do so exist? ‘default assumption’ vs ‘proven fact’ Didn’t we just go over the reasons not to assume 😃 ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/175 "2014-04-07T21:26:09Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > ‘default assumption’ vs ‘proven fact’ > > Didn’t we just go over the reasons not to assume 😃 Do you understand what a ‘default assumption’, or more accurately, “Default Position” actually means (in science/logic/reasoning)? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/176 "2014-04-07T21:32:40Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Do you understand what a ‘default assumption’, or more accurately, “Default Position” actually means (in science/logic/reasoning)? No, but, perhaps you should look it up first under such context. Just to make sure it is appropriate for this forum in the context I ASSU(me) you are using it. (In short edit time I could not find a consensus of what that term means.) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/177 "2014-04-07T22:40:32Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > No, but, perhaps you should look it up first under such context. Just to make sure it is appropriate for this forum in the context I ASSU(me) you are using it. > > (In short edit time I could not find a consensus of what that term means.) a ‘default assumption’ or ‘position’ (for many things) is that ‘X does not exist’ - its falsifiable and requires no evidence to state - you then look for things to falsify that statement (evidence). In this case - in context - since the default assumption/position for ‘spirirts’ or the ‘super natural’ are that they ‘do not exist’ - and there is no evidence for them to ‘exist’ - and we have plenty of evidence that humans not only exist but also write things down (some factual, some fanciful, some a combination thereof ) - it is not a stretch to make the default position that “Humans wrote the books that came to be known as the bible”. If you have evidence that falsifies that - please feel free to post it. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/178 "2014-04-08T01:34:31Z")
> [@simster](#): > > a ‘default assumption’ or ‘position’ (for many things) is that ‘X does not exist’ - its falsifiable and requires no evidence to state - you then look for things to falsify that statement (evidence). > > In this case - in context - since the default assumption/position for ‘spirirts’ or the ‘super natural’ are that they ‘do not exist’ - and there is no evidence for them to ‘exist’ - and we have plenty of evidence that humans not only exist but also write things down (some factual, some fanciful, some a combination thereof ) - it is not a stretch to make the default position that > > “Humans wrote the books that came to be known as the bible”. > > If you have evidence that falsifies that - please feel free to post it. Thank you for defining it and its usage here. I do not feel the ‘default position’ (which sounds semi sexual IMHO) contradicts or supports my position one way or another in this context (except for the point it was ‘created’ and I’ll take that to support my argument that it is a act of creation). To me humans are god children that do god things because of who they are. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/179 "2014-04-09T11:48:10Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Much closer then **Tacit Knowledge** ’s post #158 which sounds like it comes directly out of the atheists handbook of standard replies. But still missing an aspect. > > We are gods since we are God’s children, so we have the ability to know certain truths and interpretations, we have the ability to connect with God and be one with God - further explaining the trinity. > > In that there is leading to certain books or other works that will become text books for the student. Like any text book it is meant to have a teacher that helps guide the student, however the student and teacher are one with each other. This is not limited to the Bible or even to things considered sacred texts, but can be any work. > > So much of it comes from within. In that I’m not saying that angelic visits are not real, but perhaps that is just some extra help. No matter how you look at it, it still is the works of a human.and the belief is in another human’s teachings or beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373/180 "2014-04-09T12:01:20Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Thank you for defining it and its usage here. > > I do not feel the ‘default position’ (which sounds semi sexual IMHO) contradicts or supports my position one way or another in this context (except for the point it was ‘created’ and I’ll take that to support my argument that it is a act of creation). To me humans are god children that do god things because of who they are. Of course you believe that to be so, and as I have stated many times that is your right to believe what ever you choose. One can believe there is human like people on Mars but that doesn’t make it fact. It still boils down to just the words and works of humans, the Bible has no more reasons to be believed it is God’s word than the Koran. And God doesn’t sound like a very fair, just, or loving being if one thinks about the God of the Bible or Koran. I don’t fault you for your beliefs but they are just your beliefs and there are many contradictory things in the Bible, To me a supreme being would be nothing like the Bible describes it. Starting with being a Good, loving, fair all knowing being. What is printed in the Bible is not the way we would describe a good human parent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-the-trinity/680373.md?page=10)