# The Mystery of Trump's Tax Returns **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 12, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616 "2016-05-12T16:27:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/21 "2016-05-12T18:21:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Let’s stipulate that it would be inappropriate to release a tax return while you’re being audited. I don’t agree but let’s just let Trump be correct on this. Why could he not release tax returns from previous years? Why can’t he say, “My CPA firm says it’s best if I don’t release the 2015 return during an audit, but here you go, here’s my 2014 return”? Exactly. 2015’s in audit, so release 2014. If the audit still hasn’t been completed on his 2014 taxes, release 2013. And, if he has more than 2 years of tax returns under audit simultaneously, that alone should speak volumes.\* \*Though, he might argue that it means “the IRS hates me”, and his supporters might actually like that argument. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/22 "2016-05-12T18:25:06Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I really wish people like you would actually read the article I linked to before posting suppositions that are actually addressed in the article: And only the last couple of years can be under audit, and very likely not 2015. So he can likely release 2015, 2012, 2011, etc. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/23 "2016-05-12T18:26:02Z")
This can be an opportunity for the Dems. Nothing is quite as bad as what you make up in your imagination. In the coming months, Dems should float out questions to the press. What’s he hiding? What could it be? Maybe he has mob ties, maybe he is dodging taxes that would make him a criminal? None of it has to be true, take a page from Karl Rove’s playbook. We’re just, you know, asking questions. Without the actual returns to refute it, all Trump can do is deny each one, but do that long enough and people will see you as a liar. How can all of that possibly be false, you’d wonder. If it seems like a slow news cycle, I’d even have Democratic operatives float out possible fake returns so he is forced to deny them. Maybe someone “leaks” part of the returns where you see Trump is worth only a few hundred million. Or he has ties to Saudi Arabian oil interests, or Iran. He can either ignore them or deny them, but without the actual returns, the seed has been planted to say “What if?” he really has them? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/24 "2016-05-12T18:28:56Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Of course. :smack: Trump and his tax attorneys have actually dealt with IRS audits year after year but based on the fact that you file your taxes every year, you want me to believe that you have a better understanding of the legalities of surviving an IRS audit. Let me see… experienced tax attorneys or somebody on the internet? hmmm. Tough choice. My Bro was a IRS agent, and retired from them. There’s really no issue with releasing your tax returns and even so, you can just release the ones not currently under exam. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/25 "2016-05-12T18:30:50Z")
One reason may be that Trump has been a major donor to various Democratic party campaigns - presidential, state, senate - over many years… ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/26 "2016-05-12T18:31:24Z")
Didn’t the IRS already state they were cool with him releasing them? I’m sure I just read that somewhere. But no matter, he won’t release the old ones either. How can one off the choices NOT be: because he is revealed to be paying next to no tax on his, not nearly as high as he lied about, but still substantial income? Why else would the IRS audit you for 12 Straight years? Because you are using every tax dodge known, possibly bordering on tax fraud, would be my guess. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/27 "2016-05-12T18:31:34Z")
I gotta wonder. He claims part of his worth is the value of his name. Has he tried to claim losses if he values his name less than from the past year? Or didn’t pay taxes on an increase in value? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/28 "2016-05-12T18:32:43Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > How does this make any sense? > > How exactly does presenting the same information to the public, you sent to the IRS ‘piss them off’ has the IRS ever said you can’t show other people your filings? In fact if anything I think it would help them with the Audit. Having 50 million eyeballs scrutinizing his records might turn up something that they didn’t notice at first. Which might be why Trump doesn’t want them released. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/29 "2016-05-12T18:37:55Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > In fact if anything I think it would help them with the Audit. Having 50 million eyeballs scrutinizing his records might turn up something that they didn’t notice at first. Which might be why Trump doesn’t want them released. Those eyeballs wont get to look at the _records_, just the \*returns., \* The IRS have already “noticed” everything on the returns. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/30 "2016-05-12T18:39:47Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > In fact if anything I think it would help them with the Audit. Having 50 million eyeballs scrutinizing his records might turn up something that they didn’t notice at first. Which might be why Trump doesn’t want them released. Most of these eyeballs wouldn’t know something amiss on the forms in a million years, I know I wouldn’t. Most of us will be concerned with how much does he make and what deductions does he take. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/31 "2016-05-12T18:43:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I gotta wonder. He claims part of his worth is the value of his name. > Has he tried to claim losses if he values his name less than from the past year? > Or didn’t pay taxes on an increase in value? Trump’s claim could be correct about the value of his name, but you’re misunderstanding how assets are taxed. Generally, you have to sell an asset to pay taxes or deduct a loss on something. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/32 "2016-05-12T18:47:11Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Of course. :smack: Trump and his tax attorneys have actually dealt with IRS audits year after year but based on the fact that you file your taxes every year, you want me to believe that you have a better understanding of the legalities of surviving an IRS audit. Let me see… experienced tax attorneys or somebody on the internet? hmmm. Tough choice. Perhaps Trump could have one of his tax attorneys explain it to us plebs how this excuse works. As it stands now experienced tax attorneys are questioning this excuse. I find most random people on the internet are more credible than Trump, he couldn’t stop shoveling out bullshit if he tried. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/33 "2016-05-12T18:54:49Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Trump’s claim could be correct about the value of his name, but you’re misunderstanding how assets are taxed. Generally, you have to sell an asset to pay taxes or deduct a loss on something. Since I’ve never dealt with assets on my taxes, that’s why I was asking. Though with tongue firmly planted in cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/34 "2016-05-12T18:56:22Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Trump’s claim could be correct about the value of his name, but you’re misunderstanding how assets are taxed. Generally, you have to sell an asset to pay taxes or deduct a loss on something. Indeed. This “value on his name” stuff is just meaningless bullshit from Trump himself. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/35 "2016-05-12T19:01:01Z")
What typically triggers an IRS audit? It can’t just be that he made lots of money every year for the last 12 years…wouldn’t the trigger be too many deductions, an effective tax rate at or near 0, or questionable accounting? I mean, I suppose he could claim that he is hated, and the IRS is targeting him…but 12 years encompasses two administrations, from both parties. And he was known to be on good terms with the Clintons (i.e. having them attend his wedding), and boasts of always donating to politicians across the aisle, so I don’t get why he’d be a prime IRS target otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/36 "2016-05-12T19:25:28Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > What typically triggers an IRS audit? It can’t just be that he made lots of money every year for the last 12 years…wouldn’t the trigger be too many deductions, an effective tax rate at or near 0, or questionable accounting? > > I mean, I suppose he could claim that he is hated, and the IRS is targeting him…but 12 years encompasses two administrations, from both parties. And he was known to be on good terms with the Clintons (i.e. having them attend his wedding), and boasts of always donating to politicians across the aisle, so I don’t get why he’d be a prime IRS target otherwise. There are lots of potential triggers and the IRS won’t release their specific criteria. My guess is one of two things: First, really high income companies and individuals are audited much more often than regular folk. I have a friend who works for Boeing and tells me much the same as Trump claims: they are under continuous audit every year on something. Second, Trump University has had fraud alleged against it. The tax code does not permit expenses to be deducted if they are related to illegal income but the income itself is still taxable. Trump has already gotten the courts to push trials back to after the election, and he’s likely withholding the related tax returns for the same reasons. (In fact, tax law requires the accountant to disclose a tax position that they think will not hold up under audit. The accountant himself can be held liable for preparer penalties if they do not provide the necessary statement. Thus, the return may contain a disclaimer that would certainly look bad even if not admitting anything specifically.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/37 "2016-05-12T20:05:28Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > What typically triggers an IRS audit? It can’t just be that he made lots of money every year for the last 12 years…wouldn’t the trigger be too many deductions, an effective tax rate at or near 0, or questionable accounting? > . In his case, having a return that is **DIF** erent enuf from others in his bracket or finding enough bad stuff so that they pull more years. They can only audit back 3 years, however. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/38 "2016-05-12T20:27:14Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > experienced tax attorneys or somebody on the internet? hmmm. Tough choice. Given the choice between believing Donald Trump and Joe Isuzu, I’ll go with ol’ Joe. THAT would be a tough choice. Donald Trump or Baghdad Bob? I dunno, that’s a real tough choice. Donald Trump and some stranger I don’t know? Not a toughie at all: at least the random schmuck has a chance of not being a pathological liar. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/39 "2016-05-12T20:44:21Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > According to Trump he’s been audited 12 years in a row. Can’t see releasing the tax returns pissing off the IRS anymore than they clearly are already. To be honest, I’m shocked people don’t make more of a deal of him getting audited at least 12 times. That’s a huge bombshell in and of itself. The IRS conducts few audits, even of the obscenely wealthy and once you pass one, if they don’t find anything they pretty much leave you alone. That’s according to a friend who’s a lawyer who knows plenty of tax lawyers. He heard one jokingly say “It sounds like Trump’s tax returns are an opening bid”. I suspect their are multiple issues. Offshore tax shelters, he’s not worth as much as he claims. The big one I suspect(and this is strictly speculation) is his assets may not be enough to cover his debt and he’s terrified of his creditors discovering this. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/40 "2016-05-12T20:48:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Let’s stipulate that it would be inappropriate to release a tax return while you’re being audited. I don’t agree but let’s just let Trump be correct on this. Why could he not release tax returns from previous years? Why can’t he say, “My CPA firm says it’s best if I don’t release the 2015 return during an audit, but here you go, here’s my 2014 return”? Because he’s apparantly under almost constant audit which is a pretty huge red flag. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616.md?page=3)