# The Mystery of Trump's Tax Returns **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 12, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616 "2016-05-12T16:27:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/41 "2016-05-12T21:06:10Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Because he’s apparantly under almost constant audit which is a pretty huge red flag. Yes, it is. Look, it’s fairly common to take some grey area deductions, get them disallowed and the Auditor to go back one year and forward one year. But\* twelve fucking years in a row?\* there’s some credibility issues there. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/42 "2016-05-12T22:23:12Z")
Someone making over 10 million a year has a much higher than average chance of being audited. 16% chance per year compared to the average person’s chance of just under 1% The odds of him being audited every year for twelve years is like 3in a billion. What the hell is Trump doing? People far wealthier then him don’t see audits like that. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/43 "2016-05-12T22:39:11Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I suspect their are multiple issues. Offshore tax shelters, he’s not worth as much as he claims. > > The big one I suspect(and this is strictly speculation) is his assets may not be enough to cover his debt and he’s terrified of his creditors discovering this. It’s my understanding that net worth and assets will not appear on his tax return (unless he is claiming depreciation as a write off, and even then, I don’t think it would give a comete picture). I mean, I’ve never listed the value of my house on a tax return. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/44 "2016-05-12T22:43:00Z")
It’s not surprising that journalists are dismayed over this prospect, since it deprives them of all sorts of juicy things to write about. But, and I’m not defending Tump here, how many of us have made a decision about whom to vote for based on info gleaned from their tax returns? Trump is writing his own rules in this campaign, and it has served him well. Why change things now? And let’s be serious. We\* all just want to see his returns. We’re not voting for him anyway!! \*The vast majority of posters here ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/45 "2016-05-12T22:44:27Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > To be honest, I’m shocked people don’t make more of a deal of him getting audited at least 12 times. I’ve been wondering about this. It seems to me that if he really has been audited 12 years in a row, it’s because the IRS has found something wrong every time. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/46 "2016-05-13T00:24:24Z")
Or, his tax returns are, like, the best tax returns anyone has every seen, and the IRS just likes to bask in their glow! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/47 "2016-05-13T00:48:30Z")
Maybe he’s not being audited and he only says that he is because he wants people to think that his tax returns are so huge and incomprehensible that even the IRS has trouble with them. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Though, he might argue that it means “the IRS hates me”, and his supporters might actually like that argument. He [said](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/26/donald-trump-says-irs-audits-could-be-tied-to-being-a-strong-christian/) in an interview after one of the debates that it’s possible he’s audited so much because he’s such a devout Christian. So a lie wrapped up in another lie, really. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/48 "2016-05-13T01:02:18Z")
Heh if Trump is a devout Christian I’m a one-eyed Episcopalian kangaroo. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/49 "2016-05-13T01:08:00Z")
If you’re going to attack someone, you don’t attack they’re weaknesses; you attack their strengths. What is Trump’s ‘strength’? He’s successful. He makes money. He’s a billionaire many times over – or say HE says. When he got into financial trouble in the early 1990s, he was able to work with creditors to get them to back off – long enough so that he could get enough cash flow to pay them off. Donald Trump is a cash flow guy. As long as money’s coming in, who cares what his “net worth” truly is? Well, who cares unless people who actually know how to calculate this stuff actually care enough to ask? That’s what Donald’s afraid of. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/50 "2016-05-13T01:34:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Heh if Trump is a devout Christian I’m a one-eyed Episcopalian kangaroo. [His “church” would agree with you.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/) > [@](#): > > Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump told reporters Thursday that he attends a church in Manhattan, but the church released a statement saying the real estate developer is not an “active member.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/51 "2016-05-13T01:55:54Z")
Especially for someone like Trump, income and net worth are two completely different things. You’re not going to be able to say much definitively about his net worth just by looking at a few years tax returns. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/52 "2016-05-13T02:18:54Z")
There is zero upside for Trump to release his returns. Unless he shows that he pays more tax than he should, he’s made a ton of donations to worthy causes, doesn’t use off shore tax shelters, etc. Bloomberg ran this [story](http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-05-12/time-for-donald-trump-to-release-his-tax-returns)today, and here is a snippet: Actually, as someone who saw Trump’s federal tax returns about a decade ago as part of a legal action in which he sued me for libel (the suit was later dismissed), I think there probably are some things to be learned from them. I personally think that the press should hound him mercilessly on this point. Romney, who’s father famously started the trend by releasing IIRC 12 years worth of returns. Ramp up the FUD to 11 and make wild ass guesses and cover yourself with “I just don’t know.” ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/53 "2016-05-13T04:14:49Z")
Over at Vox Matt Yglesias pens a similar piece: [The controversy over Donald Trump’s tax returns, explained](http://www.vox.com/2016/5/12/11662122/donald-trump-tax-return). Why won’t the Donald release his returns? Mitt Romney wondered whether he was hiding links to organized crime. While it’s fun to imagine reading line items for “Extortion”, “Bribery”, and “Schedule C Payroll: Hired Thugs” it’s more likely that Romney was trying to get the media to dig up dirt from the 1980s, when Trump dealt with the New York construction industry. I think Trump is mostly hiding his net worth and investment mistakes. It’s true that tax returns list income not wealth. But wealth can be estimated for non-liquid assets if you have an idea of their cash flows and growth in the same. Which you would if Trump released as many years of returns as Mitt Romney did. As I see it, the tax return touches upon the central aspect of Donald’s appeal. He maintains he is a successful businessman. But there’s no evidence of that because he doesn’t work much with public companies. Donald Trump hides his business failures and exaggerated net worth from his supporters. Sad! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/54 "2016-05-13T05:19:24Z")
I’d be happy to have the Clinton campaign drop the subject entirely, with a statement along the lines of: _The details of Donald Trump’s tax returns are really none of anyone’s concern. In the matter of pre-Election Day personal financial disclosures, that sort of thing is really only relevant when the individual might be elected to the Presidency._ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/55 "2016-05-13T05:31:33Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > He’s presenting a story only the least informed people in the country could buy. And yet people accuse the man of not being consistent. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/56 "2016-05-13T05:56:55Z")
Does anyone think not releasing the returns will really hurt Trump? Unfortunately Clinton has plenty of dirt, the dodgy dealings of the Clinton Foundation and her refusal to release the wall street transcripts. As has been said, in this election cycle he doesn’t have to, if he was up against someone else it would be a real issue, but I can’t see it harming him too much considering Clinton’s baggage. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/57 "2016-05-13T07:05:37Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > He’s presenting a story only the least informed people in the country could buy. Well… that’s who votes, so… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/58 "2016-05-13T08:22:48Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Does anyone think not releasing the returns will really hurt Trump? Unfortunately Clinton has plenty of dirt, the dodgy dealings of the Clinton Foundation and her refusal to release the wall street transcripts. As has been said, in this election cycle he doesn’t have to, if he was up against someone else it would be a real issue, but I can’t see it harming him too much considering Clinton’s baggage. It’s not like it’s necessary. He’s got a Ph.D. (piled higher and deeper) in B.S. There’s enough material there for three elections. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/59 "2016-05-13T13:53:11Z")
Revealing that he isn’t nearly as rich as he pretends to be may be worse than a mere embarrassment. It may reveal that his creditors are likely to end up holding the bag (again), thereby starting a mad rush to get their money back ASAP while there’s still money in Trump’s coffers to be gotten. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616/60 "2016-05-13T13:57:40Z")
I doubt that. It’s pretty established that he doesn’t really overextend himself much anymore and certainly makes sure he isn’t personally on the hook. His creditors likely had a good look at the financials of whatever specific deal they financed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-mystery-of-trumps-tax-returns/754616.md?page=4)