# The Nahployment 'Crisis' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 30, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117 "2021-04-30T19:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/643 "2021-06-20T17:46:49Z")
I did neglect to add that education is likely a factor as well. This seems to be more of a problem in N.America where it’s assumed that going to college is going to automatically give you a higher paycheque and/or benefits. The problem is that except for a few specific occupations (Doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, etc) a college or University education is supposed to teach you to think better, not guarantee you a job. While it is true that lifetime earnings of a college graduate are higher than someone who only completed high school, [Cite,](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html) the perception that trades are a fallback and aren’t really a valid career path needs to change somehow. My original point @Sam_Stone 's post was that it is just possible that it has less to do with the fact they can’t play with thier phone and may be other, deeper factors. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/644 "2021-06-20T19:22:01Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > It’s called readily available office work. Trying to get an office job when you haven’t had one before is very hard, but the labor shortage we have now affects even office work. Those spots fill up as soon as they open, because people will damn well take being seated in front of a computer typing and clicking all day instead of doing more physically intensive tasks. Eventually, any job involving actual manual labor will pay much better than office jobs, simply because fewer people will put up with it. I graduated from high school in 1994, and looking back I realized I was fortunate enough to go to a fairly excellent school. I didn’t end up going to college until 2005, and I found that I was very well prepared for it compered to some of the more recent high school graduates in Arkansas. But the only thing my high school prepared me for was college. In fact, the administrator’s measured success by what percentage of their student body went on to college after graduation. Nobody talked to me about trade school and if you weren’t college bound they pretty much washed their hands of you. Edit: My comment about them only preparing me for college was a bit myopic. I did learn some valuable basic skills that I still use today. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/645 "2021-06-20T21:21:16Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > But the only thing my high school prepared me for was college. In fact, the administrator’s measured success by what percentage of their student body went on to college after graduation. Nobody talked to me about trade school and if you weren’t college bound they pretty much washed their hands of you. ^ This is the default in the US. And it’s not just college, usually, it’s four-year universities. All those kids going to community college for a 2-year degree? Don’t count, they’re considered “failures”. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/646 "2021-06-20T21:56:19Z")
@Broomstick @Odesio We’re all saying the same thing, which is sad because there’s no shame in the trades and a hell of a lot of money to be made if you’re competent. Switzerland has a much better model for post secondary education and it would serve the US and Canada greatly to try and adopt it. Many of the employment problems that have been discussed would be ameliorated. > **[Education in Switzerland: Here's What You Need To Know - Studying in Switzerland](https://studyinginswitzerland.com/switzerland-education/)** > > Switzerland’s education system is one of the most advanced in the world. Switzerland is the go-to choice for many students looking to study ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/647 "2021-06-28T20:00:00Z")
Bumping this because of this article in today’s Tikmes. > **[Where Jobless Benefits Were Cut, Jobs Are Still Hard to Fill (Published 2021)](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/27/business/economy/jobs-workers-unemployment-benefits.html)** > > Missouri scrapped federal pay to the unemployed, saying it kept people out of the labor market. But so far, workers still seem to be choosy. It seems that states that have cut benefits are not seeing workers flocking back to shit jobs. The article mentions a hotel that was not getting any applicants for room cleaners, but when they raised their pay and offered a transportation allowance suddenly got plenty. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/648 "2021-06-28T22:30:38Z")
Not very long ago, I couldn’t find gainful employment and ended up taking employment at a job where I was actually still losing money, but losing less than being unemployed. I know someone who is in a worse situation. He can’t find a job that will pay him enough to become employed. The cost of his commute from where he lives (and having reliable transportation) and his health expense issues tied to insurance deductibles and so forth keep him down. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/649 "2021-06-28T23:17:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The job was in an aviation factory. Do they do work for the military? Maybe it’s an ethical objection. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/650 "2021-07-20T19:22:47Z")
This is a good concise article about hospitality workers leaving the industry after the pandemic. > **[Low Pay, No Benefits, Rude Customers: Restaurant Workers Quit At Record Rate](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/07/20/npr-low-pay-no-benefits-rude-customers-restaurant-workers-quit-at-record-rate)** > > Average wages for nonmanagers at restaurants and bars hit $15 an hour in May, but many say no amount of pay would get them to return. They are leaving at the highest rate in decades. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/651 "2021-07-20T22:31:39Z")
Installing siding, vs. being a CPA, are probably both difficult jobs, in their own way. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/652 "2021-07-20T22:47:33Z")
Many people to whom I have mentioned this are skeptical, but I have heard that many employers can’t find workers, because the workers are not willing to give up their phones, even if they can have them on breaks. I heard about a week ago that a local grocery store fired TEN employees at the same time, for using their phones at work despite repeated warnings not to do this. I’ve asked about it at my neighborhood grocery store, and they hadn’t heard about it but the person I spoke to wasn’t surprised. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/653 "2021-07-20T23:32:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > My speculation is that one of the issues is that cell phones are not allowed on the factory floor for safety and security reasons, and young people just couldn’t deal with that. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Many people to whom I have mentioned this are skeptical, but I have heard that many employers can’t find workers, because the workers are not willing to give up their phones, even if they can have them on breaks. Count me among the many people to whom you have mentioned this who are skeptical. It certains smells of yet another “kids these days” gripe, especially since the only confirmation is somebody hadn’t heard about it, but wasn’t surprised. For the right price, people will put away their phones for eight hours. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/654 "2021-07-21T00:24:20Z")
My company employees tens of thousands who are not allowed to use phones at work. Thousands of high schoolers. Thousands more college students. Firing people (or even writing them up) hasn’t made a discussion yet. It happens, but it’s been happening for years. And we have weekly reviews of hiring and turnover. We are struggling for staff. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/655 "2021-07-21T00:39:58Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Many people to whom I have mentioned this are skeptical, but I have heard that many employers can’t find workers, because the workers are not willing to give up their phones, even if they can have them on breaks. I heard about a week ago that a local grocery store fired TEN employees at the same time, for using their phones at work despite repeated warnings not to do this. I’ve asked about it at my neighborhood grocery store, and they hadn’t heard about it but the person I spoke to wasn’t surprised. I am somewhat skeptical based on my own work experience. The grocery store I work at has an option where you can use your phone as a timeclock, to punch in and out (there’s a “geo-fence” feature involved so you can’t clock in from the parking lot, for example). You are allowed to use your phone to benefit a customer, such as showing our digital rewards program, looking up the weekly ad, using the calculator, and so forth. So it’s not “using the phone” which gets you in trouble. It’s using the phone for non work related purposes. There are jobs for which you do need to completely stay off the phone for safety reasons, just as you need to avoid other potential distractions. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/656 "2021-07-21T01:18:29Z")
These minimum wage workers were pretty much abandoned by the people now lamenting that they weren’t willing/able, to wait for those jobs to come back around. You’d be surprised how few, servers especially, never claim benefits between gigs. You know they’re switching around a lot, so why not get unemployment benefits? Mostly because these are people who rely on cash coming in daily. They can’t wait out the period it takes to collect it! Most every server I know had a new income source within two weeks of the first shut down. And some of those side hustle things were much more accommodating, and very nearly as profitable. Why return to being a wage worker? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/657 "2021-07-21T01:57:12Z")
It doesn’t help that factory and customer service work of any type has been stigmatized. It shouldn’t be; it’s an honest paycheck! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/658 "2021-07-21T02:27:10Z")
Well, I have no other explanations. But factories have been having a hard time getting new employees for quite a while. Some good information here: > **[Results from the 2016 Census: Occupations with older workers](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2019001/article/00011-eng.htm)** > > Over the past two decades, the share of the employed population aged 55 and over increased significantly. This study uses Census of Population and Labour Force Survey to examine the changing age composition of workers within the most prevalent... (Canadian data, but we track the U.S. pretty closely in these things) In particular, Chart 3 shows the ratio of workers aged 25-34 vs workers over 55. Every category shows an aging workforce, but that’s not surprising given an aging population. But what’s interesting is the difference between occupations. Across the work force as a whole, in 1995 there were 2.7 younger workers for every worker over 55. Today, that number has declined to 1.0. In manufacturing and utilities however, we went from 3.4 to 0.8. The natural sciences are even worse, where we went from 5.3 younger workers per older person down to 1.7. Lotta old scientists out there. Some occupations fared better. Health care dropped from 3.6 to 1.5. Law, education and government dropped from 3 to 1.3. Part of it is the aging boomers. Part of it is the later date for entry into the work force byntoday’s generation because more go to college… But part of it is a shift in preferences - it looks like younger generations gravitate more towards desk jobs, health care, education, government, law and the like. Not so much science and engineering. The effect may be in part due to a higher percentage of young women in the workforce, and their work preferences. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/659 "2021-07-21T02:40:00Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Many people to whom I have mentioned this are skeptical, but I have heard that many employers can’t find workers, because the workers are not willing to give up their phones, even if they can have them on breaks. I heard about a week ago that a local grocery store fired TEN employees at the same time, for using their phones at work despite repeated warnings not to do this. I’ve asked about it at my neighborhood grocery store, and they hadn’t heard about it but the person I spoke to wasn’t surprised. If this is really the problem, the solution seems simple enough. The employer should just remove the restriction on employees not having their phones on them. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/660 "2021-07-21T02:43:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The effect may be in part due to a higher percentage of young women in the workforce, and their work preferences. 🤨 ? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/661 "2021-07-21T02:52:00Z")
Even if the phones create a safety issue? I’ve definitely heard about employers who had a much easier time finding employees when they stopped testing for marijuana, although they were very clear that coming to work high was a no-no. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/662 "2021-07-21T03:05:20Z")
I don’t imagine that there’s very many tasks where simply having the phone in your pocket would be a safety issue. As long as the employees still get their work done, don’t treat the customers rudely, etc. I don’t see what the issue is. Do the supermarket employers really think that someone will be on their phone while operating a forklift or the meat grinder in the deli? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117.md?page=34)