# The Nahployment 'Crisis' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 30, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117 "2021-04-30T19:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/703 "2021-07-21T23:46:36Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > If gigs and similar alternatives are a more enjoyable way to make a living, why weren’t they doing it before the pandemic? Back in 2019, why were the MW workers slaving over a grill in a hot kitchen instead of doing some gig jobs and taking surveys? Well, two reasons: 1. As I noted, my daughter started doing gig work when she was 17, back in 2018. So, many did do this. 2. Humans are creatures of habit. Once the habit is broken, and you’re fired, you look for new habits to develop. And that’s what happened - the extended unemployment benefits gave low-income workers something they have rarely received in America’s 250 year history as a country - _time_. Time to figure some shit out, time to change their lives, time to do better. Like many things, COVID accelerated a trend which was already there. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/704 "2021-07-21T23:49:01Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > If gigs and similar alternatives are a more enjoyable way to make a living, why weren’t they doing it before the pandemic? Back in 2019, why were the MW workers slaving over a grill in a hot kitchen instead of doing some gig jobs and taking surveys? Inertia. You wind up in one of the slaving-away-long-hours-for-low-pay jobs and you don’t have energy to pursue anything else, or look for alternatives. Then you suddenly have 15 months at home, with UI and stimulus checks to keep a roof over your head and foodstamps for the table, and you finally rest up and have time to think about things. You now have the freedom to at least try a gig job, without worrying about being homeless if it doesn’t work out. Or you’re at home and try a for-pay survey to see what it’s like, and hey, you can do this X hours a week and you not only don’t have to fight traffic during a commute, or wait for a bus in all weather, you don’t even have to put even trousers on if you don’t want to in order to do the work. Covid gave people enough time to recover from chronic exhaustion, think about their situation, and consider and try alternatives. Some of which turned out to work better for folks than what they had been doing. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/705 "2021-07-21T23:53:44Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Humans are creatures of habit. Once the habit is broken, and you’re fired, you look for new habits to develop How many couples stay together all through school, but break up shortly after graduation? Same principle. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/706 "2021-07-21T23:59:54Z")
That makes sense. There’s a whole segment of the workforce which has found another way to make a living, so those old jobs are left vacant. Either new people will be needed to backfill those old jobs or else the employers will need to improve their working conditions enough to entice people away from their new income sources. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/707 "2021-07-22T00:36:10Z")
Also, a lot of people cut their “lifestyle” expenses during the shutdowns. People who ate lots of meals out learned to cook. People who went to bars and clubs and concerts all the time suddenly couldn’t.,But when forced too they found out they don’t really need it like they thought. And with reduced going out, they had reduced need for going-out clothes etc. They just don’t need a second low wage job anymore. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/708 "2021-07-22T02:11:58Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > With so many businesses struggling to find workers, how are those ex-workers able to pay the bills? From what I see on Reddit, in just the “Am I The Asshole?” sub and “Personal Finance”, tons of people have either moved in with relatives or friends because of covid. Unless they’re all trolls. But it’s true, it’s creating a lot of “Am I The Asshole?” situations. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/709 "2021-07-22T07:19:15Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Surly employee? Their job is probably tough and have you ever been surly on your job? Likely so. Let it go. David Mitchell absolutely agrees with you. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/_LiDTKEF1ek/maxresdefault.jpg "David Mitchell - Customer Service Rant") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LiDTKEF1ek) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/710 "2021-07-22T07:24:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That you need to work hard at your education so you can get a job that lets you make far more money, **have far more job security** and far better benefits, and is physically a lot easier. > [@Babale](#): > > These jobs ARE more likely to be outsourced or automated. Except, what with [expert-system automation for white-collar jobs increasing exponentially](https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-jobs-are-affected-by-ai-better-paid-better-educated-workers-face-the-most-exposure/), you’d be doing them a disservice, IMO, and one that’s based on the mistaken assumption in that second quote. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/711 "2021-07-22T07:37:28Z")
Damn, that’ll treat me to read all posts carefully not just skim 🙂 To be fair, I was looking for a preview thumbnail not a link. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/712 "2021-07-22T13:06:34Z")
One minor piece of anecdata for support of the ‘these jobs suck and people now prefer other lines of work’ theory: [https://twitter.com/ChillStableGuy/status/1417961936445136900?s=19](https://twitter.com/ChillStableGuy/status/1417961936445136900?s=19) ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/713 "2021-07-22T13:51:35Z")
Relevant here, I think, and I didn’t really want to dig up a tipping thread, especially when a lot of the emphasis is on problems with being required to smile: > **[Tips And 'Service With A Smile' Rules Fuel Sex Harassment In Restaurants,...](https://www.npr.org/2021/07/22/1019017172/tips-and-service-with-a-smile-drive-sexual-harassment-in-restaurants-study-finds)** > > The authors say their research is the first to show an empirical link between tipping and forced friendliness to sex harassment. More than 70% of female restaurant workers report being harassed. And I do think that statistic in the first paragraph has a lot to do with it. Since some of the harassment servers get isn’t sexual, the total percentage has to be higher than that. ‘Here, have a job, and you’re supposed to take it for granted that you’ll be harrassed on the job’ – yeah, an awful lot of people have been stuck with that. But it’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/714 "2021-07-22T15:03:57Z")
Who is committing the sexual harassment? Their supervisors or their customers? If it’s the customers, then I don’t think it can be defined as sexual harassment. I think it would be defined as lewd, crude, or vulgar behavior. It’s always been my understanding that, by definition, only your supervisor or a person in higher authority at your workplace can sexually harass you. Please correct me if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/715 "2021-07-22T15:21:13Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If it’s the customers, then I don’t think it can be defined as sexual harassment. I think it would be defined as lewd, crude, or vulgar behavior. It’s always been my understanding that, by definition, only your supervisor or a person in higher authority at your workplace can sexually harass you. Please correct me if I’m wrong. You are very wrong: > [@](#): > > sex·u·al ha·rass·ment > > _noun_ > > 1. behavior characterized by the making of unwelcome and inappropriate sexual remarks or physical advances in a workplace or other professional or social situation. You might be thinking about the concept of power differential making even a consensual relationship questionable, due to the inherent power dynamics involved when dating your boss. But anyone can sexually harass anyone, not only a boss. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/716 "2021-07-22T15:47:13Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If it’s the customers, then I don’t think it can be defined as sexual harassment… [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51328323508_6596716cc1_b.jpg "SmartSelect\_20210722-104241\_Messages") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51328323508/) … I just. > [@JohnT](#): > > My daughter is a perfect, and early, example of this - in 2017, at the age of 16, she got her first job @ Culver’s staying a year, only to quit early her Junior year in HS (2018), saying she didn’t want to be bothered any more with the low pay and sexual harassment. I cannot conceive of a world where a _paying_ “customer” can slap a 17yo girl on the ass and _not_ have it considered sexual harassment. Someone _paying_ is definitely in a position of authority, CrafterMan. Seriously? Ladies? Do you care to comment? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/717 "2021-07-22T15:48:22Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I cannot conceive of a world where a _paying_ “customer” can slap a 17yo girl on the ass and _not_ have it considered sexual harassment. Unless, of course, being slapped is the service you are being paid for. Those jobs exist too. Probably not for a 17yo in the U.S. though ~Max ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/718 "2021-07-22T15:49:49Z")
Even strip clubs have various ‘no hands’ policies. Well, they’re supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/719 "2021-07-22T16:09:43Z")
I’m required to take sexual harassment training because I’m on a town planning board. The training is very clear that not only in common speech, but also legally, it’s sexual harassment whether it comes from a boss, a co-worker, a subordinate, or a member of the public. There are specific issues that may only come from a boss – a credible threat to fire or demote the harassed person if they don’t comply, for instance. But putting hands on people, sexual gestures, and sexual comments are sexual harassment no matter who they come from. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/720 "2021-07-22T16:12:44Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Unless, of course, being slapped is the service you are being paid for. Those jobs exist too. Many of them are trafficked. Anybody paying for such services should make _damn_ sure they’re paying a willing participant. And in any case they don’t have anything to do with the food service jobs being discussed. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/721 "2021-07-22T16:19:58Z")
Of course, it’s also true that some service people will go out of their way to flirt with the customers to try to increase their tips. Even still, that’s not an open invitation to harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/722 "2021-07-22T16:30:10Z")
I’m obviously not condoning it. And it looks like I had an incorrect definition of sexual harassment… I (incorrectly) thought the _term_ only applied to someone in authority at a workplace. Ignorance fought. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117.md?page=37)