# The Nahployment 'Crisis' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 30, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117 "2021-04-30T19:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/763 "2021-07-23T05:10:01Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I’m a year younger than you, and worked in restaurants from age 14 to age 30, I’ve never seen anyone slap a waitress’ ass (or a waiter’s, for that matter) but yeah, I did see inappropriate behavior, usually by drunks, and a couple times had customers say inappropriate things to me. One of them got a group banned (because it wasn’t the first time he’d done this to somebody) from the hotel banquet facility where I worked. Yeah, I certainly don’t want to minimize the behaviour of people who cross boundaries, whether managers or customers. I was just a little curious about that particular trope, because I see it a lot in movies, but never in real life. Around here, if you slapped a waitress on the ass I’m going to guess that about half the other customers and staff would offer to help escort the person out of the place. That’s way over a line that’s already over the line. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/764 "2021-07-23T11:44:14Z")
Did you work as a waitress? Read the studies and surveys that people have posted in this and the tipping threads. People are reporting that this is happening, AND they are reporting that when they report it to their managers they are told “it is a he said, she said, situation and he is a paying customer” so they are discouraged from reporting. Yes, the open slap on the ass accompanies by a loud guffaw is largely a movie trope. Copping a feel in a more discreet way is not. My sister (working in a family type steakhouse, not Outback but similar) reported this happening even from guys who were there with the wife and kids. And she was a teenager for most of that time (high school), so doubly creepy. Heck, my daughter and most of her athletic team work at the same Dunkin location. They are age 15-17. Creepy, leering, “flirty” customers is a constant complaint. At least they are separated by a counter. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/765 "2021-07-23T12:45:18Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > Especially when you have learning disabilities and rent near the Amazon job is $1400+ a month. Don’t be a troll, please. carnut, this comment is not appropriate in this forum. Accusing people of being trolls is not permitted in any forum except the Pit. Please refrain from this in the future; no warning issued, just a helpful note. Thanks, RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/766 "2021-07-23T14:10:42Z")
> [@Chatterbox1](#): > > I meant no offense. It was really just a “kids these days” thing. Sorry. So… what is it about ‘kids these days’ which contributes to the under-filling of minimum wage jobs? My answer is “they can earn more money with side hustling via their phones than that $300 earned by grinding 40 hours at Red Robin, but once it makes financial sense to get back to being an employee (as in, once the employer starts paying enough), they’ll get back to work as a W2 employee.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/767 "2021-07-23T14:13:27Z")
If they’re “side-hustling” with their phones and making better than minimum wage with it with less stress and aggravation then they ARE at work. They’re just not at the work that some other people want them to be doing. Older generations, and the wealthy, need to stop denigrating other people making sound fiscal choices by doing work that is less wearing on them for better money. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/768 "2021-07-23T14:13:58Z")
Exactly. +1. 👍🏼 ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/769 "2021-07-23T14:24:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Older generations, and the wealthy, need to stop denigrating other people making sound fiscal choices by doing work that is less wearing on them for better money Or, more likely, pass laws that prevent workers from making these sound fiscal choices and forces them to choose between total economic destitution or a minimum wage job at Walmart that doesn’t actually cover living expenses and requires government subsidies through benefits to the employees to function. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/770 "2021-07-23T14:31:24Z")
That’s called “serfdom - the sequel”. I don’t doubt that there are people in favor of that system. I also expect every single one of those people are NOT planning to be among the serfs themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Chatterbox1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@Chatterbox1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chatterbox1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/771 "2021-07-23T15:37:01Z")
You don’t get to call it “side hustling” if that’s all you do. 😁 The side hustle thing is a bit of an illusion. Uber, for example, can’t keep running at a loss forever. Let alone people pushing it to act like a regular employer. Regardless, is the grand new future of employment “delivering groceries but now with an app!”? This ain’t your daddy’s pizza delivery job! ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/772 "2021-07-23T15:39:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I should note that kids these days get a lot of “kids these days” type comments, but what their elders often miss is that it really IS a lot harder to get ahead in this country today than it was when many of the scoffers got their start. Rent is up, you have to put a higher percentage down to buy a home and the house itself is also more expensive However, the good news is that interest rates are practically zero. When I was looking to get into the housing market, interest rates were 18-19%. Anyone else remember those days? I thought housing was out of _my_ reach. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/773 "2021-07-23T15:42:50Z")
You didn’t answer the question, only commented on my response. Really, your comment was devoted to the word “side”. Good job, that. I stand corrected. To repeat: What is it about “kids these days” which makes them particularly at fault for the underfilling of minimum wage jobs? ---
**Author:** ![Chatterbox1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@Chatterbox1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chatterbox1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/774 "2021-07-23T15:47:52Z")
I get the impression that quite a few aren’t willing to put in the grind years to get to the job they want. Boredom and inconvenience a deal breaker. I know they’re not all like that and usually I am not a “kids these days” person but what set me off was one of my nieces just put off her 2nd vaccine appointment because she didn’t want to risk side effects on her boyfriend’s day off. They have good jobs though. She’s a teacher, he’s a nurse. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/775 "2021-07-23T15:51:58Z")
I thought people were against a “living wage” because those “entry level” jobs are for “kids” just starting and they can move on once they get skills to get better paying jobs. And now folks are complaining that those same “kids” are saying “go work that job yourself, Boomer”? And Boomer is like, “who is going to make my fries”? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/776 "2021-07-23T15:57:13Z")
> [@Chatterbox1](#): > > I get the impression that quite a few aren’t willing to put in the grind years to get to the job they want. Boredom and inconvenience a deal breaker. I know they’re not all like that and usually I am not a “kids these days” person but what set me off was one of my nieces just put off her 2nd vaccine appointment because she didn’t want to risk side effects on her boyfriend’s day off. My daughter makes a $1,000 week being a barista in Manhattan, far better able to support herself than being a $300 week barista in San Antonio, TX. Perhaps the issue isn’t really the kids, but the public expectations of how one is supposed to earn their way. Here in the slaver states, expecting people to “grind away” until some magical time in the future when they no longer have to grind is a common attitude. Also, the attitude of “I survived my trauma so it’s OK if it’s visited upon you” is also shockingly common as well. Both of these attitudes create conditions in the workplace where the smart and driven say “fuck y’all” and do something else. And the kids these days are, if anything, smart and driven. And they’re definitely saying “fuck y’all” to those jobs which exhibit the attitudes expressed in the paragraph above. ---
**Author:** ![Chatterbox1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@Chatterbox1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chatterbox1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/777 "2021-07-23T16:02:28Z")
I would say quite self assured rather than driven, for good or for ill. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/778 "2021-07-23T16:10:18Z")
In my experiences, two sides of the same coin. The person in question may not see this, but most driven people are self-assured enough to make decisions as to keep ‘driving’, so ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/779 "2021-07-23T16:15:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Here in the slaver states, expecting people to “grind away” until some magical time in the future when they no longer have to grind is a common attitude. Particularly when they can look around and see how many people took that “grind away” job (McJob, dead-end job?) and ended up being ground down by it. I mean, being a barista isn’t bad - but becoming a lifer? Moving up after five years to a job managing a coffee place that gives you twice the headaches and half the tips? I can’t blame anyone for saying “No thanks” to that offer. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/780 "2021-07-23T16:23:35Z")
Can’t blame people for choosing crappy, unsustainable jobs over crappier, even less sustainable jobs. And it’s bordering on insulting to imply that such jobs inherently imbue some special kind of virtue by dint of being low pay and difficult. No, that can’t go on forever. The last time we were in a similar place, a lot of labor and socialist movements started getting really popular rather than the idea people should have no other choice than low paying, often dangerous jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/781 "2021-07-23T16:41:28Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > Moving up after five years to a job managing a coffee place that gives you twice the headaches and half the tips? I can’t blame anyone for saying “No thanks” to that offer. Not a barista here, but I turned down an offer of stepping up into management because it was longer hours, more headaches, and not enough of a pay jump to make it worth my while to do that grind between now and retirement. In fact, I know several people who were in management for awhile and then asked to step back into “mere” team member roles - and the company accommodated them and they’re much happier. Nor were they all women with small children, or all women, as seems to be the stereotype for that. We currently have an assistant store director training her replacement before she drops down to non-management (not sure exactly what’s going on, but I heard she’s planning to change careers and will be going back to school and working as a store director wouldn’t accommodate that). Me - my current job is doing what I need it to do, and I want time outside of it to pursue other interests. You know, actual work/life balance. I’ve had jobs where I earned 2-3 times my current salary but I wasn’t happier and I was more stressed. Now that I only need to support me I’m more free to make trade-offs that result in more time for what I actually like to do with my life vs. more time at work. I can hardly fault younger people for making the decisions that work best for them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/782 "2021-07-23T16:43:34Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > I mean, being a barista isn’t bad - but becoming a lifer? I mean, there are plenty of people who would enjoy such a career if it paid well. There’s no shame in wanting to do this work, even for life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117.md?page=40)