# The Nahployment 'Crisis' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 30, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117 "2021-04-30T19:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1204 "2022-01-10T01:24:53Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > When I lived in Alaska, there was a local motel with a restaurant and bar whose owner did exactly that. In Spenard? If so, I may know who you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1205 "2022-01-10T01:35:03Z")
Nope, Kenai, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened elsewhere in Alaska. It’s a magnet for dreamers who don’t always do their due diligence. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1206 "2022-01-10T04:11:09Z")
It’s not just low-level service or retail jobs. In the corporate world we are calling it the Great Resignation. Where a few years ago, people were embracing “hustle culture” and constantly posting about working all hours and side hustles and whatnot, those same people are now posting about “taking time off” or finding a company where you can “be your authentic self”. I’m not sure the root cause of it. Maybe the COVID pandemic made all these people realize that working your life away might not be worth it because there might never be an actual payout. Maybe working from home made a lot of people realize how stupid the actual work they do really is? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1207 "2022-01-10T17:21:44Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’m not sure the root cause of it. Maybe the COVID pandemic made all these people realize that working your life away might not be worth it because there might never be an actual payout. Maybe working from home made a lot of people realize how stupid the actual work they do really is? And COVID clearly demonstrated to a lot of people that their employers are quite happy to put their lives at risk in order to keep making money, while at the same time doing everything they can to avoid sharing any of that money with the employees. Whether it’s retail employees dealing with both maskholes and bosses who won’t theow the maskholes out, or office workers who could work at home, but their bosses insist they be in the office, we’ve all seen employers put money before their employees health, even their lives. At some point, even the densest employee realizes that the “we’re all in it together” stuff is just propaganda, and stops caring about whether or not the company is succeeding. Once they start looking out for themselves first, the businesses suffer. A lot of people have noted that it’s very difficult to get your boss to give you a raise, and that the only way to make more money consistently is to quit your job in favor of a new, higher-paying one. And so that’s what they do, they jump jobs every 2-3 years. If the employers have no loyalty, why should the employees? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1208 "2022-01-10T17:54:05Z")
Refusal to accommodate hours, just to be butts about it, is yet another reason why many retail businesses are having difficulty keeping workers. What part of “I can’t work XYZ hours” do they not understand, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1209 "2022-01-10T17:58:19Z")
If an employer’s main emphasis is how much ~_FUN_~ you’ll having working there, it’s a red flag the size of, oh, I don’t know, a California king bedsheet? I do believe in promoting morale, but it can be taken too far. I saw the WeWork documentary, and yeah, that was a cult. > **[WeWork: Or the Making and Breaking of a $47 Billion Unicorn (2021) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11188154/)** > > WeWork: Or the Making and Breaking of a $47 Billion Unicorn: Directed by Jed Rothstein. With Ashton Kutcher, Gwyneth Paltrow, Rebekah Paltrow Neumann, Farah White. An account of the six-week death spiral that brought down the company's IPO, a... ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1210 "2022-01-10T18:44:58Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Refusal to accommodate hours, just to be butts about it, is yet another reason why many retail businesses are having difficulty keeping workers. What part of “I can’t work XYZ hours” do they not understand, anyway? Yep. I’ve read lots of stories like that lately, and I keep thinking, “How exactly did they expect that to play out?” Did they really think someone would quit school or leave their kids in daycare after hours, just to go to work? It seems far too may bosses just have no sense of awareness, at all. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1211 "2022-01-10T18:49:29Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’m not sure the root cause of it. Maybe the COVID pandemic made all these people realize that working your life away might not be worth it because there might never be an actual payout. Maybe working from home made a lot of people realize how stupid the actual work they do really is? All of the above, and more. It’s going to take years to shake out, but Covid has permanently changed the workplace all over the world. The biggest losers are going to be middle management, when upper management sees just exactly how useless they (MM) are when stuff gets done just fine when everybody WFH. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1212 "2022-01-10T19:50:29Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Did they really think someone would quit school or leave their kids in daycare after hours, just to go to work? According to my friend, last year her daughter would have come home in tears and would have tried to figure something out while she looked for a different job. Now that every retail business in town has help wanted signs workers have more options. As a bonus, the young lady’s current bosses know beyond doubt that she is willing to walk out if they won’t make accommodations for her schedule too. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1213 "2022-01-10T19:53:55Z")
The solution seems to be, replace full-time positions with part-time positions. That way you get to work hours you like, and I don’t have to give you all the benefits. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1214 "2022-01-10T20:03:26Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The solution seems to be, replace full-time positions with part-time positions. That way you get to work hours you like Yeah, except they seem to be doing this to part-time workers as well. I don’t imagine a single mother who is also attending college likely worked full time, after all. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1215 "2022-01-10T20:03:34Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Yep. I’ve read lots of stories like that lately, and I keep thinking, “How exactly did they expect that to play out?” Did they really think someone would quit school or leave their kids in daycare after hours, just to go to work? In a tight enough job market, dealing with employees who felt they had no choice, it may have worked out that way for them for years. There have certainly been many people who dropped out of, or didn’t start, school because they had to work. There have certainly been many people who left their children with substandard carers, mostly-unwilling carers (Grandparent/neighbor, you _have_ to take them, I’ll lose my job!), or even no care at all despite the children being too young to properly do without it, because they had to work. And bear in mind that people at the lower end of the income scale, especially if they’re additionally caretakers and/or in school, are often in a state of chronic exhaustion. Some of them had been that way for most of their lives. It’s really, really hard to make sensible decisions, or any decisions other than how to somehow get through the next few hours or days, when in a state of chronic exhaustion. And some of these people finally, during covid shutdowns, got caught up on their sleep: and, once awake, started thinking of what else they could do. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1216 "2022-01-10T20:17:59Z")
If you are referring to the young lady I spoke of, you are correct. She only wants to work 25-30 hours a week because she also needs time to do such things as eat and sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1217 "2022-01-10T20:20:14Z")
Yeah, she was the proximal example, but I’ve seen many such stories from other sources. Working part time simply isn’t a solution to employers messing around with your schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1218 "2022-01-10T20:23:53Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > That way you get to work hours you like In practice, it’s been more you work the (reduced) hours _the company_ likes. Often with little notice. That appears to be changing. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1219 "2022-01-10T20:42:06Z")
It used to mean, you have to keep 104 hours in your week open for me to schedule 15 hours when I need you. And I don’t have to pay you benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1220 "2022-01-10T20:53:12Z")
Indeed so. It has traditionally meant flexibility for the employer to add or subtract shifts or hours with little or no notice. It’s been enough of a problem that several cities have enacted restrictions for on-call scheduling and have requirements to lay out scheduled hours in advance. There are some states considering legislation to extend these protections state-wide. This also includes restrictions on things like ‘clopening’ where a part time (or full time, to be fair) employee may be asked to close out for the day and report first thing to open the store. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1221 "2022-01-10T21:08:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > I’m not sure the root cause of it. Maybe the COVID pandemic made all these people realize that working your life away might not be worth it because there might never be an actual payout. Maybe working from home made a lot of people realize how stupid the actual work they do really is? > > All of the above, and more. It’s going to take years to shake out, but Covid has permanently changed the workplace all over the world. The biggest losers are going to be middle management, when upper management sees just exactly how useless they (MM) are when stuff gets done just fine when everybody WFH. I don’t think that’s entirely true. At the very least, it’s a somewhat outdated concept of “middle management” as a bunch of empty suits wandering the cubicles berating workers to complete their TPS reports. Companies still need to have those middle layers to provide governance, mentorship to junior employees, and subject matter expertise. Creating “flat” organizations IMHO tends to have the unintended consequence of diminishing the value of experience and longevity in a role. If there is no place to promote up to, no career path to speak of, and an employee of 5-10 years is treated as functionally equivalent to one with 1-2 years experience, why stay in that job? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1222 "2022-01-10T21:55:51Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Companies still need to have those middle layers to provide governance, mentorship to junior employees, and subject matter expertise. Creating “flat” organizations IMHO tends to have the unintended consequence of diminishing the value of experience and longevity in a role. If there is no place to promote up to, no career path to speak of, and an employee of 5-10 years is treated as functionally equivalent to one with 1-2 years experience, why stay in that job? Every time we have had some consultants tell us to “flatten” the organization and we enthusiastically do it, we immediately start creating informal “lead” and “SME” roles for first-among-equals. Idiotically we have people ghost-writing reviews and handing out out-of-policy bonuses and perks until we stop the madness, reduce span of control for knowledge jobs back to 3-1 rather that 7-1 and start working normally. Until we splash out another $10M for a bunch of Bright Young Things who work in a very hierarchical company to tell us that this is stupid and we should flatten the organization. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1223 "2022-01-10T23:09:09Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I saw the WeWork documentary, and yeah, that was a cult. > In October 2019, Neumann received close to $1.7 billion from stakeholder [SoftBank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoftBank) for stepping down from WeWork’s board and severing most of his ties to the company.[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeWork#cite_note-12) He was retained as a consultant with an annual salary of $46 million.[[13]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeWork#cite_note-13) _[The New York Times](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times)_ described the company’s failed effort to go public, and its related turmoil, as “an implosion unlike any other in the history of start-ups,” which it attributed to Neumann’s questionable tenure and the easy money previously provided to him by SoftBank, led by [Masayoshi Son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masayoshi_Son).[[14]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeWork#cite_note-14) [Cite.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeWork) Cult or grift – you decide. I mean, I’m sure under my guidance I could cause a company to lose $2-billion (2018). Can I get a $1.7-billion golden parachute and $47-million a year as consultant, too? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117.md?page=62)