# The Nahployment 'Crisis' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 30, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117 "2021-04-30T19:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1224 "2022-01-10T23:25:28Z")
I heard stories about this when I entered the workfarce (sic) as a teenager in the late 1970s, and over the years, the bosses who did this kind of thing leaned heavily towards women doing it to other women. My old hospital’s lead technician, a mother herself, would also change schedules without asking people! As flawed as the pharmacists’ management team was, at least they would ask before doing anything like that. This also included places that had “flexible” scheduling, where someone wanted to work set hours, but they flipped them all over the place anyway. Good heavens. Why do schedulers make it harder than it has to be? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1225 "2022-01-10T23:39:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If we’re really that hard up for workers there are literally tens of thousands of people who would be happy to move here and work. But for too many “immigration” is a dirty word even if their ancestors did it. Where would we put them? As it is we’re over [5 million houses short of demand](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/real-estate/2021/09/24/5-million-more-homes-needed-in-the-us-what-investors-need-to-know/118840812/). Importing more people would make that worse and dent the economy too. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1226 "2022-01-11T00:12:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > If there is no place to promote up to, no career path to speak of, and an employee of 5-10 years is treated as functionally equivalent to one with 1-2 years experience, why stay in that job? And this is another part of “work culture” that really needs to be re-thought. The idea that you have to “move up” continuously throughout your career, particularly if you want to make more money. The problem is, sometimes moving up is a really bad idea. I’ve maxed out my salary band for my current job, but I have absolutely no desire to get promoted, because I’ve done the next job up the line as an acting position enough to know I hate it, and would be really bad at it. But I’m really, really good where I am. How would I be more “valuable” to my employer as a bad X+1, as opposed to a really good X? Forget promotions, just give me raises to keep me where I am, thanks. > [@elfkin477](#): > > Where would we put them? As it is we’re over [5 million houses short of demand](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/real-estate/2021/09/24/5-million-more-homes-needed-in-the-us-what-investors-need-to-know/118840812/). Importing more people would make that worse and dent the economy too. Why is it “supply and demand” always seems to break down in the areas that would actually help regular people? If there’s a need for 5 million houses, how is that not inspiring people to build them? And not top-of-the-line luxury houses with granite bidets and crystal appliances, just solidly built 3 and 4 bedroom homes. We built hundreds of thousands of those around here in the 60s and 70s, why can’t we do it now? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1227 "2022-01-11T00:19:42Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > If there’s a need for 5 million houses, how is that not inspiring people to build them? And not top-of-the-line luxury houses with granite bidets and crystal appliances, just solidly built 3 and 4 bedroom homes. We built hundreds of thousands of those around here in the 60s and 70s, why can’t we do it now? Local zoning. The current homeowners don’t want to devalue their homes by allowing the supply to increase. And vote accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1228 "2022-01-11T00:22:53Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Local zoning. The current homeowners don’t want to devalue their homes by allowing the supply to increase. And vote accordingly. Yeah. There’s tons of ink wasted on hang-wringing about NH’s lack of workforce housing and it boils down to local zoning laws the state can’t do anything much about. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1229 "2022-01-11T01:06:44Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > As it is we’re over [5 million houses short of demand](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/real-estate/2021/09/24/5-million-more-homes-needed-in-the-us-what-investors-need-to-know/118840812/). Importing more people would make that worse and dent the economy too Part of that is places not available for anyone to actually live in because owners can make a lot of money on the short-term rental market. And why would bringing in more workers dent the economy? Especially when the problem the economy’s having is that businesses claim they can’t get workers. > [@Pleonast](#): > > The current homeowners don’t want to devalue their homes by allowing the supply to increase. And vote accordingly. Then they shouldn’t complain about not being able to hire help. Or to get service. Or to get things shipped to them quick when they want them. Humans are very often not rational, however. (Yes, I know that includes me; if less so on this particular subject than some.) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1230 "2022-01-11T01:13:39Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And why would bringing in more workers dent the economy? Especially when the problem the economy’s having is that businesses claim they can’t get workers. A big part of the current inflation is the jacked up house prices and rents that have also risen sharply. If you increase the demand on a scarce commodity, prices will continue to rise contributing to even higher inflation. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1231 "2022-01-11T04:06:29Z")
We have a smallish to us (\>1500 sf) three bedroom home. The value has gone up 100 grand in just 4 years which we think is insane. There is a single wide two bedroom 1 bath mobile (840 sf) behind us that is renting for 1100 a month. 6 months ago, a drug house went on the market and was bought by flippers for the price of the land. When they put it up for sale there was a bidding war before the 1800 sf four bedroom home was sold for almost 400 grand. How are young people supposed to fly the nest when they can’t afford a new nest to land in? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1232 "2022-01-11T05:06:27Z")
Well, according to some folks I know, they need to set aside $50 a paycheck, lay off the fancy coffees, and think about their budget. And in 20 years, maybe they’ll be able to afford a coffee table book with pictures of houses they’ll never afford. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1233 "2022-01-11T11:01:47Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Yeah. There’s tons of ink wasted on hang-wringing about NH’s lack of workforce housing and it boils down to local zoning laws the state can’t do anything much about. Why can’t the state do anything about it? New Hampshire doesn’t seem to be a home rule state, but is there some narrow constitutional provision that prohibits the state from regulating local zoning authority? I realize that the political culture in most of the USA is overly deferential to corrupt local fiefdoms and their entrenched interests, but I’d think a state that isn’t encumbered by home rule\* would at least have a relatively broad _ability_ to fix that kind of problem. \*One of the big mistakes of the Progressive Era was the assumption that local government would be both less corrupt and easier to hold to account. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1234 "2022-01-11T11:57:37Z")
I may have mentioned this before, but I am having a hell of a time trying to hire an electronics technician. I originally posted the position in June 2021. Had eight interviews. Six didn’t know anything about electronics. Made an offer to one, but he took another job. Same goes for the other. Position is still open. I’m not sure what to at this point. Salary is fairly high, IMO, for no college requirement. Plus free college for children. Yet… crickets. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1235 "2022-01-11T12:45:18Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > The problem is, sometimes moving up is a really bad idea. I’ve maxed out my salary band for my current job, but I have absolutely no desire to get promoted, because I’ve done the next job up the line as an acting position enough to know I hate it, and would be really bad at it. But I’m really, really good where I am. How would I be more “valuable” to my employer as a bad X+1, as opposed to a really good X? Yup. I’m a small sort of sub department of another department. My salary is maxed out for my position, the salary band does change, so I do get more money, but I’m always maxed out. The only ‘up’ for me would be my bosses position. No way in hell do I want that. And anyway, we are the same age and are both going to retire in a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1236 "2022-01-11T12:53:24Z")
I’m currently maxed out, too. I’m actually comfortable in my current position which is a mix of cashier and cash office which gives me some variety. My wages are sufficient that I not only can pay all my bills and have a couple luxuries but I’m also able to save and invest a little for the future. The only way up would be management, but in truth I’m not interested in the additional stress. I like being able to put my hours in and go home and forget about work, and have time and energy for other things that are important to me. “Moving up” is overrated and overemphasized. I mean, if that’s your thing and you want it great, go for it. But I wish society was more OK with people finding a comfortable niche and sticking with it for long periods of time. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1237 "2022-01-11T14:06:33Z")
I once worked at a place where the rota was pinned up on the staff notice board by the assistant manager on Saturdays, about midday, for the week starting Monday. It was normally pretty much the same every week, with occasional variations for staff holidays and things, which he’d ask in advance about. All fine, until we got a new (male) manager, who one weekend decided to remove the rota from the wall on Saturday evening at closing, and pin up his own completely re-written version on Sunday. The single mother who was only available while the kids were in school? Scheduled 2-8pm. Students who only did evenings and weekends? Middle of the day. It was glorious chaos. I volunteered at a charity Monday mornings, and got an angry phone call from the tit of a manager midway through my shift there demanding to know why I wasn’t at work. It was actually written into my contract that I wasn’t available Mondays before 2pm. The whole week we had way too many people show up for some shifts and not enough for others, because no-one knew who’d popped in to check the rota on Saturday and who’d done it on Sunday, and the muppet was too lazy or stupid to phone round to check. Even afterwards, the guy genuinely didn’t seem to think he’d done anything wrong. He kept whining that it was our responsibility to check our shifts, and even when everyone who’d come in on Saturday pointed out that we _had_ he still insisted we should have made sure it hadn’t changed. He didn’t touch it again though. So yeah- the reason some people do that is because they’re flaming idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1238 "2022-01-11T14:19:12Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > My salary is maxed out for my position, the salary band does change, so I do get more money, but I’m always maxed out. > [@Broomstick](#): > > “Moving up” is overrated and overemphasized. I mean, if that’s your thing and you want it great, go for it. I volunteered to move up from a senior worker-bee position to the lowest level of management, just so we didn’t get some outside idiot coming in to manage us. Otherwise, I would’ve been happy where I was at. My company has the nice policy that merit raises are independent of where you are within your grade range. (There are also other raises that bump up those low in their grade.) Any raise over the max gets converted into a one-off bonus. So if you’re at $100k, get a 2% raise, and the grade max is $101k, your new salary becomes $101k and you get a $1k bonus with your raise letter. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1239 "2022-01-11T14:28:34Z")
I’ve worked for a couple of companies who gave bonuses to the workers at maxed-out salary level. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1240 "2022-01-11T14:31:52Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > My company has the nice policy that merit raises are independent of where you are within your grade range. Yeah. We have something like that too. I really don’t know the details. Oh I’ve been told, but can’t bother with it. It’s odd because as a programmer, I have to be VERY detailed in my work, the other stuff that HR kicks out just gets a “whatever” from me. This is why I would be very bad in a management position. No way I want to deal with that stuff, and the money would not be much more than I currently make. They can’t do my job, and I sure as hell don’t want to do theirs. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1241 "2022-01-11T15:23:15Z")
One of my sisters gave notice just yesterday. She’s a legal secretary, and the only one in the small firm who regularly handles the real estate filings and such. She said the main lawyer she worked under was stunned into silence. The head of the firm came by an hour later to basically try to bribe/beg her not to go. (She’s been with the firm for more than twenty years, and is 68 so it’s not like it should have been totally unexpected.) The thing is, this firm has been scrabbling for employees for well over two years. They’re nice people overall, the pay is good, the offices are pleasant and in a nice, safe Boston suburb easily commuted to. There just apparently aren’t enough qualified people available right now. Not paralegals, not legal secretaries, not even general office help. It took five months to fill a slot for a job that basically involves just scanning old records into the computer and making copies! No special skills or knowledge involved, just being able to show up for the assigned hours reliably. Not to mention they’ve gone through six! receptionists in that time. The last couple they hired they pretty much knew weren’t ideal for the job – but they were desperate. One of them went to lunch the second day and never came back. When they finally managed to get her on the phone she said she’d met a ‘really interesting man’ at the coffee shop and they’d decided they ‘needed a break from work’ ! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1242 "2022-01-11T18:28:14Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > It used to mean, you have to keep 104 hours in your week open for me to schedule 15 hours when I need you. And I don’t have to pay you benefits. On-call for a gas station attendant? I can understand with a registered nurse or somebody who makes $40/hr or so, but that kind of on-call situation doesn’t make sense for a worker who is paid min wage for hours actually worked. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117/1243 "2022-01-11T18:38:40Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > On-call for a gas station attendant? That’s not necessarily on-call. See recent posts about getting the week’s schedule on Saturday or Sunday. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nahployment-crisis/941117.md?page=63)