# The Nancy Pelosi appreciation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907 "2019-01-17T01:42:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/221 "2019-01-27T15:33:09Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And his lack of respect for the office of the President. He shouldn’t expect any respect after the “Adam Schitt” tweeting. Pelosi and Schumer should call him Don if he calls them Nancy and Chuck with that tweet at the ready. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/222 "2019-01-27T17:29:30Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It’s a good thing too. because I believe Schumer would be Trump’s punching bag, if it weren’t for her. > > This whole thing was a perfect example of how Trump CAN’T fight, when the other side can hit back. When they fight back, he doesn’t know what to do. He’s used to people who HAVE TO take his shit. Plus the fact that it’s a WOMAN who’s fighting back and throwing the shit back in his face, and he is totally baffled. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/223 "2019-01-27T18:53:38Z")
> [@Modesty\_Blaise](#): > > Ugh, Schumer drives me crazy. I think he’s weak and ineffective. And he gives the most boring speeches. I don’t think I’ve ever heard him sound like he actually means what he’s saying. Although, I will say he sounds better than Individual#1 when he attempts to read. > > Schumer would have blown this whole opportunity. Nah, his nebbishness is no biggie. I’m very glad he’s around. **Madmonk28** - Is it possible you might have underestimated Pelosi so far? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/224 "2019-01-27T21:55:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I am rather curious what all else came into it other than Trump’s plummeting approval rating. Pelosi didn’t just succeed in outlasting him, she also forced him to give up on the State of the Union and cave in a pretty thorough manner, and that didn’t seem to have anything to do with anything. > > Trump is almost certainly the most compromised human on the planet, just because he does stupid, impulsive things constantly. I wonder if he tried to talk her into sex once, and she got it on tape or something. Trump’s shtick relies heavily on insults, which makes it fall flat when the target is a woman. It’s even worse when the target has strong message discipline, like Pelosi. It’s still worse when the target understands Trump’s weaknesses, as Pelosi does. Hillary was a weak campaigner, but even she got under Trump’s skin. > [@Modesty\_Blaise](#): > > I wish people dealing with Trump would focus more on his Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He’s a very simple and predictable person because of his NPD. Play to his narcissism and you win every time. For most politicians, psychology is over-emphasized and the boring fundamentals of the situation are under-emphasized. So ordinarily I would disagree. Not in this case. All Presidents preceding Trump have cared about their political party. They couldn’t get where they are without the party, and they know their destiny is tied to it. So if someone is popular but not particularly bright, they surround themselves with decent advisors and listen to them. They consult with other party leaders. But Trump really doesn’t care about the GOP. He never held political office before; if he had, he wouldn’t have been re-elected. Psychological quirks in general and NPD in particular are central to Trump, in a way they are not for any other politician throughout US history of any party. Trump is not susceptible to peer discipline, only to changes in popularity within his base. That’s it. That said, the fundamentals were against Trump: shutdowns have never worked in the past. Pelosi played a strong hand well. [https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/government-shutdown-ends/](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/government-shutdown-ends/) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/225 "2019-01-27T22:11:15Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Trump’s shtick relies heavily on insults, which makes it fall flat when the target is a woman. It’s even worse when the target has strong message discipline, like Pelosi. It’s still worse when the target understands Trump’s weaknesses, as Pelosi does. > > … Phooey, the whole freakin’ world understands thump’s weaknesses. Nancy did not engage with him. It’s the same tactic that works with trolls here that few avail themselves of. Don’t take the bait. Don’t play their game. Don’t argue. Don’t attack. Don’t defend. Don’t go back and forth page after page after page. IOW don’t \*\*engage \*\*at all. She told him how the cow ate the cabbage and then she shut up. THAT’S how it’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/226 "2019-01-27T23:45:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Phooey, the whole freakin’ world understands thump’s weaknesses. > > Nancy did not engage with him. It’s the same tactic that works with trolls here that few avail themselves of. Don’t take the bait. Don’t play their game. Don’t argue. Don’t attack. Don’t defend. Don’t go back and forth page after page after page. IOW don’t \*\*engage \*\*at all. Disagree. She engaged, but in a very particular way. Her attacks were brutal, but indirect. She hit him where it hurts, by gradually taking away something he wanted: the TV spectacle of the State of the Union address. With Charles Shumer, she baited him into taking responsibility for the shutdown on television. And check this out: “Federal workers will not be receiving their paychecks,” Pelosi said of the ongoing government shutdown. “What that means in their lives is tragic in terms of their credit rating, paying their mortgage, paying their rent, paying their car payment, paying their children’s tuition.” Pelosi then accused Trump of being “insensitive” to federal workers, and took an apparent jab at the money Trump received from his father. “The president seems to be insensitive to that,” she said. “He thinks maybe they could just ask their father for more money. But they can’t.” As Trump’s fortune is grounded upon silver spoon, that was a cutting attack. But since it didn’t involve name calling, it wasn’t juvenile in the way Trump’s frankly successful attacks on males are. We might agree though. Pelosi didn’t engage on Trump’s level, but at a couple of levels higher. That helps. ETA: Also agree troll management is relevant here. To take another example, Parkland survivor Hogg has a good approach: don’t engage (directly) [cutoff their oxygen](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/06/19/david-hogg-calls-boycott-fox-news-laura-ingraham-after-immigration-comment/716375002/). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/227 "2019-01-28T00:43:33Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > … > We might agree though. Pelosi didn’t engage on Trump’s level, but at a couple of levels higher. That helps… That was my entire point. She didn’t do it at his level. She didn’t engage in the sense that she didn’t jump down into the pit where he was beckoning her and go a few rounds with him. She didn’t take the bait. She kept control of the game and didn’t play on his field. She didn’t get into a back-and-forth, name-calling contest. THAT is the way to beat a weak, stupid, immature bully like him. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/228 "2019-01-28T01:55:03Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > That was my entire point. She didn’t do it at his level. She didn’t engage in the sense that she didn’t jump down into the pit where he was beckoning her and go a few rounds with him. She didn’t take the bait. She kept control of the game and didn’t play on his field. She didn’t get into a back-and-forth, name-calling contest. THAT is the way to beat a weak, stupid, immature bully like him. And critically, with a quiet, calm demeanor. The only jabs she threw were occasional one-liners with the offhand timing of a master comic. “We could plant these [plants in her office] along the border and call it a wall.” Dorothy Parker material, I tell you. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/229 "2019-01-28T03:17:20Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Disagree. She engaged, but in a very particular way. Her attacks were brutal, but indirect. > > She hit him where it hurts, by gradually taking away something he wanted: the TV spectacle of the State of the Union address. With Charles Shumer, she baited him into taking responsibility for the shutdown on television. And check this out: “Federal workers will not be receiving their paychecks,” Pelosi said of the ongoing government shutdown. “What that means in their lives is tragic in terms of their credit rating, paying their mortgage, paying their rent, paying their car payment, paying their children’s tuition.” > > Pelosi then accused Trump of being “insensitive” to federal workers, and took an apparent jab at the money Trump received from his father. > > “The president seems to be insensitive to that,” she said. “He thinks maybe they could just ask their father for more money. But they can’t.” As Trump’s fortune is grounded upon silver spoon, that was a cutting attack. But since it didn’t involve name calling, it wasn’t juvenile in the way Trump’s frankly successful attacks on males are. > We might agree though. Pelosi didn’t engage on Trump’s level, but at a couple of levels higher. That helps. > > ETA: Also agree troll management is relevant here. To take another example, Parkland survivor Hogg has a good approach: don’t engage (directly) [cutoff their oxygen](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/06/19/david-hogg-calls-boycott-fox-news-laura-ingraham-after-immigration-comment/716375002/). This is a good analogy. Earlier in the thread I believe I used the term aikido-ka. Whatever we call it, she used Trump’s aggression and turned it against him. This is why Trump is puzzled. Trump brags about being a counter-puncher but a lot of times he’s just a straight up bully. Pelosi didn’t want the shutdown but she knew it was coming and prepared for it. She let Trump have his stage time in advance of the shutdown. She let him play gladiator and he boasted that he would take the blame for the shutdown, probably with the assumption that people would forget what he actually said. They didn’t, and Pelosi made sure of it. She was also realistic. She knew she couldn’t play Trump’s game of tweeting and trying to compete with sound bytes. One, she knew would lose to the master, and two, she knew it wouldn’t get her results. Pelosi beat him at a game that he hadn’t prepared for. She let his decision’s consequences speak for themselves, and then she took her fight to the public on the side of the 800,000 federal workers, many of whom are blue collar. Trump is like a dog who just got into a fight with a nasty skunk or a racoon. His nose his bloodied and while he wants to strut around like he’s the top dog, his nose hurts, and he has no idea what to do next. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/230 "2019-01-28T03:27:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The ATCs and flight attendants threatening to strike at La Guardia may have been what finally forced his hand, from what I’ve read. That’s the shutdown. He caved on the SOTU a day or two earlier, and I’m reasonable sure that planes will fly just fine without a State of the Union address. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/231 "2019-01-28T09:33:08Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Hillary was a weak campaigner, So weak she won the popular vote? > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > That’s the shutdown. He caved on the SOTU a day or two earlier, and I’m reasonable sure that planes will fly just fine without a State of the Union address. I’m hoping the twerp refuses to even (have)writ(t)e(n) a speech until he’s fired. Then future presidents will get a homework assignment from Congress for every future SOTU. And that will be Tan the Conman’s legacy on government. Bonus: The nation won’t have to listen to 45. (Actually, the only 45 I want to hear is the one he uses to blow his brains out.) ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/232 "2019-01-28T10:36:49Z")
I was a huge Hillary backer, but winning the popular vote by three million over Donald fucking Trump does not prove she’s a good campaigner, nor does having to go the distance with Bernie. Kerry in '04 was better IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/233 "2019-01-28T13:23:28Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Bonus: The nation won’t have to listen to 45. (Actually, the only 45 I want to hear is the one he uses to blow his brains out.) I’d settle for [this 45.](https://www.discogs.com/composition/186a3fe9-269e-48b7-8e61-218d5dfed938-Na-Na-Hey-Hey-Kiss-Him-Goodbye) ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/234 "2019-01-28T15:05:56Z")
I’m back from work travel and I will give Nancy “Nancy” Pelosi credit. She scored an important victory against Trump, one that might have finally done some lasting damage to the support he has from his base. ETA: and she did it in a way that I did not think would work. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/235 "2019-01-28T21:53:23Z")
Madmonk, in what way did you anticipate it not working? You thought voters would blame Democrats for not just funding the wall? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/236 "2019-01-29T00:55:18Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Madmonk, in what way did you anticipate it not working? You thought voters would blame Democrats for not just funding the wall? Or that Trump would keep the shutdown going instead? That was my fear. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/237 "2019-01-29T01:09:33Z")
Nancy invited thump to STFU [sic] on February 5. I expect the cameras to spend a lot of time on her face as she sits behind him. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/238 "2019-01-29T01:46:32Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Or that Trump would keep the shutdown going instead? That was my fear. Pelosi knew that shutdowns are unpopular. They usually result in dropping poll numbers for the instigator. She used this knowledge to her advantage. Trump is threatening to shut down the government again if he doesn’t get what he wants by February 15. Is he really so stupid that he’ll try this again? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/239 "2019-01-29T02:07:41Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Pelosi knew that shutdowns are unpopular. They usually result in dropping poll numbers for the instigator. She used this knowledge to her advantage. > > Trump is threatening to shut down the government again if he doesn’t get what he wants by February 15. Is he really so stupid that he’ll try this again? A good chunk of his base apparently wants him to, if we can believe the interviews on NPR today. One woman grumbled that Pelosi and her Democratic caucus were “smartasses with college degrees”. :smack: Why are these people allowed to vote again? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907/240 "2019-01-29T03:04:56Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Disagree. She engaged, but in a very particular way. Her attacks were brutal, but indirect. > > She hit him where it hurts, by gradually taking away something he wanted: the TV spectacle of the State of the Union address. With Charles Shumer, she baited him into taking responsibility for the shutdown on television. And check this out: “Federal workers will not be receiving their paychecks,” Pelosi said of the ongoing government shutdown. “What that means in their lives is tragic in terms of their credit rating, paying their mortgage, paying their rent, paying their car payment, paying their children’s tuition.” > > Pelosi then accused Trump of being “insensitive” to federal workers, and took an apparent jab at the money Trump received from his father. > > “The president seems to be insensitive to that,” she said. “He thinks maybe they could just ask their father for more money. But they can’t.” As Trump’s fortune is grounded upon silver spoon, that was a cutting attack. But since it didn’t involve name calling, it wasn’t juvenile in the way Trump’s frankly successful attacks on males are. > We might agree though. Pelosi didn’t engage on Trump’s level, but at a couple of levels higher. That helps. > > ETA: Also agree troll management is relevant here. To take another example, Parkland survivor Hogg has a good approach: don’t engage (directly) [cutoff their oxygen](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/06/19/david-hogg-calls-boycott-fox-news-laura-ingraham-after-immigration-comment/716375002/). It got to hm. He’s not used to being told NO. She did it. He’s not used to being called on specific lies. She did it. She hammered on the fact that this was HIS shutdown and wouldn’t let him slime away like he’s used to. Part of above, she wouldn’t let him blame someone else. He’s not used to that. She took away his so called SOTU, which would have been a bullshit stream of lies anyway - no captive audience to abuse. Pointing out that he is a spoiled no-count trust fund brat who never earned anything, but had the world handed to him, was just the icing on the cake. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nancy-pelosi-appreciation-thread/827907.md?page=13)