# The Nanny Kaputs Kerik's Nomination for Homeland Security ... Yeah, Right **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262 "2004-12-11T04:31:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/41 "2004-12-13T19:32:06Z")
Looks like [the bomb has dropped](http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/261625p-224000c.html) Is there not one man with any kind of power in this country who can keep his pants zipped? Sheesh. If he wants to screw around on his wife and she’s stupid enough to put up with it, fine. But how dumb do you have to be to believe that you’ll never get caught? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/42 "2004-12-13T19:48:11Z")
Having seen the way the administration operates, I conclude that if there were nothing but the nannygate, then Bush and the Senate Republicans would have gone full steam ahead, damn the torpedoes, and muscled its way through any senators with reservations. Kerik would have been recast as the Greatest American Hero Ever, and anyone who made a peep about the nannygate would have been denounced by the conservative media as unpatriotic and heedlessly playing politics with the nation’s security. Heck, even if no one made a peep about nannygate, the administration and its echo chamber would still go after the mainstream media and would pick some Democrats to castigate (maybe based on who’s up for re-election the soonest) – “Here we are trying to protect the lives of Americans, and still people like … uh … DEBBIE STABENOW and [can’t forget] HILLARY CLINTON cynically try to use this for political leverage … oh, yeah, and the NEW YORK TIMES. It’s shameful.” The Republicans would have charged through without any heed to risk, because win or lose, it would still end up as a public relations victory for them. We know how it works; we’re not idiots. Something else is going on, something really big, something that the administration doesn’t think it can bluster and shout itself through. Of course there’s no _evidence_, because the whole point of this cover story is to make sure that everyone forgets about Kerik before the facts come to light. By that time, there’ll already be an answer … “In this time of national danger, it’s pathetic how the liberals will try to latch onto anything in order to spread their propaganda. I mean, the guy’s not even in the cabinet. He was rejected because the administration has already judged him an inappropriate candidate for the job. Besides, none of this would have happened had Giuliani (who’s not in the administration) not shown a serious lapse in judgment and betrayed the president [freakin’ Rino, grumble grumble].” ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/43 "2004-12-13T20:14:45Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Looks like [the bomb has dropped](http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/261625p-224000c.html) Bingo. Congrats to **Duckster** and **elucidator** ; it was an excellent call. All I can say about Kerik and Giuliani at this point is :rolleyes:. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/44 "2004-12-13T20:19:25Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Amazing how the standards of evidence with you guys drop so far when dealing with a Bush appointee as opposed to, say, the Swiftvets. Speaking of standards of evidence, do we have any evidence whatsoever (besides Kerik’s word, which is less than reliable right now) that there actually _is_ a ‘nanny problem’ here? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/45 "2004-12-13T20:22:35Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Looks like [the bomb has dropped](http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/261625p-224000c.html) The most interesting part of that story was this: > [@](#): > > Kerik’s affair with [city Correction Officer Jeanette] Pinero is at the center of two lawsuits against the city, both brought by correction employees who claimed Kerik retaliated after they crossed her. > > The city settled one last year for $250,000, The News reported at the time. > > The second suit, in which Pinero and Kerik were deposed last week, was filed by former Deputy Warden Eric DeRavin 3rd, who claims Kerik quashed his promotion after he reprimanded Pinero. The city demanded a gag order on both depositions. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/46 "2004-12-13T20:35:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Speaking of standards of evidence, do we have any evidence whatsoever (besides Kerik’s word, which is less than reliable right now) that there actually _is_ a ‘nanny problem’ here? No, we don’t; and I highly doubt we ever will. Now that everyone in the administration has already lined up to take a big shit on Kerik for the putative Nannygate issue, I can just imagine how shocked, yes_shocked_ they will be to find out he was an unfaithful husband. Zippergates cut both ways, don’t they. This just sucks all around. I’m tired of sex in politics, and I’m actually pretty disappointed. Couldn’t it be a shady buisiness deal, mob ties, a terrorist double-agent, anything else? Nope. Oy!: Yet another sex scandal. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/47 "2004-12-13T20:48:46Z")
Can you hear those crickets? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/48 "2004-12-13T21:09:17Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Is there not one man with any kind of power in this country who can keep his pants zipped? Sheesh. Why should he kept “his pants zipped”? Affair with the publisher was clearly before marriage, the allegation that the other affair continued after marriage is not substantiated yet. > [@](#): > > Many close to Kerik in the mid-1990s assumed that someday he would marry Pinero, a career correction officer described as spirited and attractive by friends, a close friend and a former high-ranking Correction Department source said. > > The relationship continued after Kerik married Hala Matli, a hygienist in his dentist’s office whom he met in mid-1996 and wed in November 1998, according to multiple sources close to Pinero and Kerik. Are we going to demand celibacy from public officials now? And since we all are in conspiratorial mood: > [@](#): > > The second suit, in which Pinero and Kerik **were deposed last week** , was filed by former Deputy Warden Eric DeRavin 3rd, who claims Kerik quashed his promotion after he reprimanded Pinero. The city demanded a gag order on both depositions. Was that just a coincidence? In jest, I kind of agree with some here that GOPs had to go ahead and ram this one through against all precedents, just to demonstrate they can. But seriously, while Kerik might still get away with it, the next one to try “nanny retreat” will become a laughing stock. They have to start thinking of other ways to obfuscate. Like, “…_after perusing my life, I regret to inform the Nation that I coveted my neighbors chicken once 20 years ago…_” ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/49 "2004-12-13T21:51:18Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I’m tired of sex in politics, and I’m actually pretty disappointed. Couldn’t it be a shady buisiness deal, mob ties, a terrorist double-agent, anything else? Nope. Oy!: Yet another sex scandal. Don’t be disappointed. The “sex scandal” isn’t _the_ bomb. But meanwhile, if you want shady business deals (and mob ties too!), read Sunday’s NY Daily News “Special Report”. Also note the editorials make sure to trash Guiliani (bye-bye Rudy, say the neocons). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/50 "2004-12-13T21:56:49Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > the allegation that the other affair continued after marriage is not substantiated yet. You quote: > [@](#): > > The relationship continued after Kerik married Hala Matli So what isn’t substantiated? If you’re saying that what you quoted isn’t substantiated, then it’s also not substantiated that the first affair was before his marriage. Anyway, we’re not a court of law and we didn’t make Kerik withdraw his nomination, so we don’t have to substantiate it. > [@](#): > > And since we all are in conspiratorial mood:Was that just a coincidence? I don’t get what you’re saying. The point is that Kerik is not only implicated in adultery (who bleeding cares, anyway?), but also that he **misused his authority** to persecute employees who complained about his mistress. That just makes it worse. In fact, in a perfect world, _this_ is what everyone should be exercised about. Misuse of authority _is_ relevant when considering someone for high office. Adultery? Meh. > [@](#): > > In jest, I kind of agree with some here that GOPs had to go ahead and ram this one through against all precedents, just to demonstrate they can. Jest? What’s funny about it? They’ve been pulling this bullcrap for four years. What about the fact that both house of Congress (both of which are ruled by Republican majorities) voted to revoke the F.C.C.'s decision to do away with broadcast ownership limitations and the conference committee, from which all Democrats were banned, just removed that provision, _just to demonstrate that they freaking well can_? Nice standard for democratic governance. Why don’t we stick that principle into the new Iraqi constitution? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/51 "2004-12-13T22:04:27Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I don’t get what you’re saying. The point is that Kerik is not only implicated in adultery (who bleeding cares, anyway?), but also that he **misused his authority** to persecute employees who complained about his mistress. That just makes it worse. In fact, in a perfect world, _this_ is what everyone should be exercised about. Misuse of authority _is_ relevant when considering someone for high office. Adultery? Meh. Yeah, that’s what everybody says. It wasn’t the sex! No, I don’t care about that, it was the…eh, what’s that? She blew him _where_? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/52 "2004-12-13T22:09:23Z")
The comment wasn’t aimed at you, in case the sarcasm wasn’t apparent, **ascenray**. I have no reason to doubt your principles, or your disinterest in prurience. Some other folks, though… ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/53 "2004-12-13T22:39:44Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I don’t get what you’re saying. Something that happened in 90-s was brought to Court last week. > [@acsenray](#): > > Jest? What’s funny about it Going through with Kerik nomination was suggested as a possibility by **Squink** and **LouisB** , which I thought was kinda funny. And sorry, I’m totally remiss in my oversight of F.C.C. issues. I’m too busy having affairs with my nannies. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/54 "2004-12-14T02:14:58Z")
Looks like [I’m not the only one](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_12_12.php#004226) who wonders if there’s a proof of the Nanny Existence Conjecture. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/55 "2004-12-14T04:31:50Z")
Let’s see: Kerik withdraws his nomination as a result of [nannygate](http://www.thehour.com/292720426480493.bsp), the sole official reason. Of course, allegations that: Former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik accepted thousands of dollars in cash and gifts without making proper public disclosures, a Daily News investigation has revealed. ([Source - NY Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/261266p-223749c.html).) In June 2000, two months before Bernard B. Kerik was appointed police commissioner, New York City’s top investigative agency learned that he had a social relationship with the owner of a New Jersey construction company suspected of having business ties to organized crime figures, city documents show. ([Source - NY Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/14/nyregion/14kerik.html).) FORMER police commissioner Bernard Kerik, who last week dramatically withdrew his nomination as the new Homeland Security chief, conducted two extramarital affairs simultaneously. ([Source - Melbourne, Australia Herald Sun](http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,11678160%255E663,00.html).) Bernard Kerik, President George W. Bush’s choice to run the Homeland Security Department, made $6.2 million by exercising stock options he received from a company that sold stun guns to the department - and seeks more business with it. ([Source - Morningstar](http://news.morningstar.com/news/DJ/M12/D09/200412090324DOWJONESDJONLINE000477.html?djnsection=DJN3).) … and the list goes on. OTOH, the vetting process worked and Kerik’s public service carrer is finished. Then again, the vetting process only worked after Kerik fessed up up in that he wasn’t honest with the Administration the first time around. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/56 "2004-12-14T04:42:40Z")
It’s difficult, in light of all Kerik’s issues, forget about affairs and lawsuits for abuse of authority, to understand how the vetting process did not lead to a rejection from day one. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/57 "2004-12-14T06:43:15Z")
Two affairs simultaneously, eh? Can’t wait to hear the right-wing “moral values” apologists spin _that_ one away. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/58 "2004-12-14T06:58:11Z")
Am I missing something here? Did Giuliani not know about the lawsuits, etc.? Did his brain entirely leave his head during this process? Kerik is a disaster. Why on Earth would Rudy put so much stock in this guy as a candidate for Homeland Security, knowing half of what there is lurking in his boneyard of a closet? These are lawsuits involving infidelities and retribution in City Hall, for crying out loud. This stuff asll happened on Rudy’s watch. I can only assume he was privvy to lawsuits and other intramural issues involving his Police Commissioner. What, was 9/11 supposed to have washed away all his sins? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/59 "2004-12-14T09:29:19Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Looks like [I’m not the only one](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_12_12.php#004226) who wonders if there’s a proof of the Nanny Existence Conjecture. According to [kausfiles](http://slate.msn.com/id/2110976/), nanny has left the country. Also, > [@](#): > > Every public figure should keep at least one illegal housekeeper around, just in case! ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/60 "2004-12-14T09:31:51Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Two affairs simultaneously, eh? > > Can’t wait to hear the right-wing “moral values” apologists spin _that_ one away. You just jealous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262.md?page=4)