# The Nanny Kaputs Kerik's Nomination for Homeland Security ... Yeah, Right **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262 "2004-12-11T04:31:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/61 "2004-12-14T14:32:34Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Two affairs simultaneously, eh? > > Can’t wait to hear the right-wing “moral values” apologists spin _that_ one away. > [@New Iskander](#): > > You just jealous. Ask and ye shall receive. And in under three hours. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/62 "2004-12-14T15:16:14Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > According to [kausfiles](http://slate.msn.com/id/2110976/), nanny has left the country. Please quote the part where Kaus says that. Because I sure don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/63 "2004-12-14T15:19:53Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > What kind of “hard evidence” are you looking for? Are you disputing that he employed an illegal alien? If he didn’t, I would expect the press to be able to debunk that pretty easily. That’s right, PROVE I didn’t secretly hire a nameless illegal nanny off the books leaving no paper record. Just go on and PROVE it! ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/64 "2004-12-14T15:28:04Z")
Guilani runs hot and cold with me. He brought on some really good people (Bratton) and did some really good things as far as cleaning and reforming up NYC, but he also brought in unprecedentedly incompetant nepohires (even after campaigning against this practice). It looks like Kerik was one of the latter in the end: someone who got carried along way past his station by slavish devotion to Guilani’s apron strings. All this and we still don’t know the reasons behind his aborted run in Iraq or his potentially transformation of the manpower and public resources of the Department of Corrections into a RNC campaign office. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/65 "2004-12-14T17:02:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Please quote the part where Kaus says that. Because I sure don’t see it. [A Republican source said some White House officials found it highly suspicious that Kerik was not aware of a potential problem with a nanny who left the country very recently.](http://slate.msn.com/id/2110976/) ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/66 "2004-12-14T17:04:57Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > Ask and ye shall receive. And in under three hours. Lighten up, F.U. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/67 "2004-12-14T17:15:40Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Amazing how the standards of evidence with you guys drop so far when dealing with a Bush appointee as opposed to, say, the Swiftvets. The Swiftvets were able to produce a copy of a signed arrest warrant supporting their charges? They ought to have mentioned that in their ads, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/68 "2004-12-14T17:36:43Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Are we going to demand celibacy from public officials now? If the party is going to endorse conservative moral standards as an element of public policy, they most certainly should be held to them. That includes celibacy for the unmarried. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/69 "2004-12-14T17:40:53Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > That’s right, PROVE I didn’t secretly hire a nameless illegal nanny off the books leaving no paper record. Just go on and PROVE it! The nanny should have a name, which should be verifiable by other sources. Check SS records or other public records. I don’t think it should be that hard. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/70 "2004-12-14T19:13:04Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > If the party is going to endorse conservative moral standards as an element of public policy, they most certainly should be held to them. That includes celibacy for the unmarried. But then he’d be confirmed! Is that what you want? Do you want _Robespierre_ for National Security Czar? I like my national politics with a good dose of buffoonery, thank you very much! ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/71 "2004-12-14T19:42:36Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The nanny should have a name, which should be verifiable by other sources. Check SS records or other public records. I don’t think it should be that hard. It’s pretty hard if we just never find out things like her name, her… wait: Social Security? Isn’t the whole problem that she was an illegal alien and WASN’T going to get SS? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/72 "2004-12-14T19:48:27Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > It’s pretty hard if we just never find out things like her name, her… wait: Social Security? Isn’t the whole problem that she was an illegal alien and WASN’T going to get SS? Yes. There would be no SS records for her. Or at least none from her employment by Kerik. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/73 "2004-12-14T19:56:22Z")
Look, just so everyone has the context, this is why an affair with Judith Regan is deliciously amusing to many (observation and quotes taken from Atrios): CUE VIOLINS: CUE CLIPS OF FOXNEWS BABBLING-HEAD FEEDS FROM THE POST-CLINTON ERA: > [@](#): > > ``` > REGAN: Absolutely. I don't think there's any question. I mean, here's Hillary who's been standing by her man all these years and **allowing him to behave in this reprehensible fashion.** > > REGAN: I don't know. I mean, I think that they're going to move forward here, and **I think it's alarming to me that the country is not concerned about having an amoral man in the White House.** > > ``` > > REGAN: I said, “You know what? **There’s a really great morality tale here with a great, great moral lesson** ,” and nobody’s really said that. > > ``` > REGAN: Well, partially, but it's also an "amorality tale" because the one thing that's missing from "Monica's Story" is, you know, deep thinking about her own amorality, which we saw -- was in ample evidence during the Barbara Walters love fest the other night. **I mean, here's a woman who clearly knows a lot about sex, but knows nothing about right and wrong.** > > REGAN: You know, the amorality tale, "Monica's Untold Story," is about her amorality, and the amorality of all of the people in this ugly story. But one of the things that was remarkable about her two hours **is her utter lack of sincere remorse.** And in that case, I would say **she is a true soulmate of Bill Clinton** because the two of them -- she learned a lot about spinning. She learned a lot about publicity. You know, she learned a lot about changing her image. And she tried to do another Barbara Walters show, but I don't know if America's buying it. I'm sure not. > > Ms. REGAN: Well, I think that the social fabric of this country has become completely unraveled. I think the sexual revolution had a lot to do with that. I think that we are in terrible shape. I think we have a country where half the kids are being raised by single mothers. A lot of that has to do with male behavior. We look at the men in this country **who do not want to be accountable to their wives,** do not want to be accountable to their children and we have as a president a man who could be a symbol of everything that is good; he could be a wonderful husband, he could be a wonderful father. He is in a position of great authority to show this country and to lead this country in a way that is much more important than economically. > > Ms. REGAN: ...to this kind of fame, don't grow up thinking, You know, what I really want to do is to be a good citizen, to be loyal to my friends, to care about my neighbors, to get married, to be faithful to my husband, to have a family.' These are not the things that we're teaching. > > Ms. REGAN: We can conquer others with force but to conquer ourselves we need strength.' And this is really what we need in America today. **We need to conquer our own impulses. We need to understand that we can't act on them all the time because it feels good for us.** We have to care about the other. > > Ms. REGAN: Let me tell you something, my father has never cheated on my mother, my brothers have never treated cheated on their wives. I come from a big Italian Irish Catholic family and I have to say that for the most part, they have not cheated on each other. **My brothers were virile...** > > ``` Yummy! AND THE VIOLINS EXPLODE WITH CORNY PASSION!!! ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/74 "2004-12-14T20:05:54Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Yes. There would be no SS records for her. Or at least none from her employment by Kerik. Well, then I’ll get right on finding things that don’t exist! Shouldn’t take too long to track them down! Why, having a name or even a country of origin to go on would just GET IN MY WAY! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/75 "2004-12-14T20:07:30Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > If the party is going to endorse conservative moral standards as an element of public policy, they most certainly should be held to them. That’d be a novelty for the Republican Party. 😉 Anyone else remember Dan “Clinton is a scumbag” Burton and his illegitimate son whom he pretended didn’t exist for fifteen years? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/76 "2004-12-14T20:20:18Z")
[Vetting issue? What vetting issue?](http://nytimes.com/2004/12/14/nyregion/14kerik.html) > [@](#): > > **Rudy:** > “I didn’t get to consider it then,” Mr. Giuliani said, “and I did not know much about it all until this confirmation process started for homeland security.” > [@](#): > > **Anonymous former city official:** > “The question is, what did the mayor know? It should have been reported to him by the Department of Investigation. The mayor should have been told about it. And he should have considered it.” ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/77 "2004-12-15T07:05:19Z")
You know, I have to blame Clinton for this funny, funny situation. Seriously. Every new crazy detail that comes up about this guy just brings a wash of errie Lewinsky scandal nostalgia. If bedding now absurdly hypocritical morality scold Regan wasn’t enough, he apparently bedded her in an apartment overlooking the 9/11 pit that was donated to help weary rescue and repair workers. > **[Apartment Said to Have Been Scene of a Kerik Affair (Published 2004)](https://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/15/nyregion/apartment-said-to-have-been-scene-of-a-kerik-affair.html)** > > A partment in Battery Park City that former Police Comr Bernard B Kerik rented and used for affair with Judith Regan reportedly was originally donated after Sept 11 for use of weary police and rescue workers at ground zero; Anthony Bergamo, Milstein... And just in time to be relevant to the fact that homosexuals are destroying marriages comes word that Kerik is an experienced hand at marriage, with three under his belt and counting (though he, apparently, only counts two). [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ny-nywife144083539dec14,1,6738827.story?coll=chi-news-hed](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ny-nywife144083539dec14,1,6738827.story?coll=chi-news-hed) None of this, in my mind really disqualifies him from the job he was slated for. But it IS pretty damn rich on so many levels. Given that there is a seeming unending pit of oddball revelations about this man, he certainly has a pretty major MOTIVE for making up a nanny-backout once he saw that all this could be headed down the pipe at him. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/78 "2004-12-15T07:08:45Z")
On the other hand, his already best-selling autobiography should see a pretty major bump, which would make him a rich man… if he wasn’t already incredibly wealthy that is. On the other hand, using a sacred 9/11 space to carry on his extramartial trysts whislt his men were working their butts off in the pit below definately complicates his image as a big 9/11 figure. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/79 "2004-12-15T10:25:33Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Every new crazy detail that comes up about this guy just brings a wash of errie Lewinsky scandal nostalgia. You are forgetting that Sex might be just another diversion. Take Clinton, do you really think it was about Lewinsky charms? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262/80 "2004-12-15T15:02:23Z")
Oh, this is rich. A Republican is caught up in a sex-and-corruption scandal and _somehow_ it becomes Clinton’s fault. > [@](#): > > Take Clinton, do you really think it was about Lewinsky charms? What the heck are you talking about? Are you suggesting that Clinton’s sexual infidelity was not about sex at all? Perhaps it was part of a complicated scheme to betray the American people. Yeah, that’s it. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nanny-kaputs-keriks-nomination-for-homeland-security-yeah-right/279262.md?page=5)