# The Narnia books are overrated. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 6, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278 "2005-12-06T01:08:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/1 "2005-12-06T01:08:09Z")
I hereby assert that the seven fantasy novels written by C. S. Lewis known as _The Chronicles of Narnia_ are a bunch of crap. I will justify this claim. First let me state my premises. C. S. Lewis wrote these books as children’s books, obviously. I do not believe that there can be a good book which is exclusively a children’s book. Certain books are entertaining for children but entirely worthless from an adult’s perspective. Other books, though commonly thought of as children’s literature, are highly entertaining for adults. I read the Narnia books when I was young, roughly eight years old. I even read some of them twice. But as best I can recall, back then my little brain didn’t really evaluate books. Anything that wasn’t a total bore got put in the good category, and was even considered worthy of a reread if I had some spare time. Somewhere between there and adulthood, my standards advanced. I will now say what I think about the Narnia books from my adult stance. First of all, each book is an allegory for some aspect of Lewis’ take on Christianity. There’s nothing wrong with that. What’s wrong is that the allegories Lewis wants to tell don’t fit the structure he chooses. I see three big problems: 1. Each Narnia book is over 200 pages. This often requires Lewis to pad the tale with filler material. In three of the books, the probelm is particularly severe: _Voyage of the Dawn Treader_, _The Horse and his Boy_ and _The Magician’s Nephew._ 2. Useless static characters. Frequently the big characters have no purpose. Peter and Susan are blanks in _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_, Eustace is worthless in _The Silver Chair_. Lewis typically makes the point he wants to make with only one character, and the others are milling around trying to find some way to be interesting. 3. Endings are forced. _Prince Caspian_, in particular, stands out for the “Aslan showed up and everything was suddenly okay” ending. _The Voyage of the Dawn Treader_ and _The Magician’s Nephew_ have no drama in their conclusions whatsoever. These are the big problems. However, they all tie together in one really big problem: Lewis didn’t have a central plan for any of the stories. His idea in each book was to write an allegory. Once he had the allegory going, he simply stuck on whatever bits and pieces he could come up with at random locations. Consider, just as an example, the listings of creatures in _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_. Any creature from any fairy tale tradition or mythological base shows up. Any at all. There’s no organization, no logic to it. He just needs to make the paragraphs long enough. So the witch has half of Greek mythology on her side, and Aslan has other half? Doesn’t that somewhat spoil the “ye olde England” feel that Lewis was making a feeble attempt at building? Essentailly Lewis needed to make those paragraphs long enough, so he just stuck in whatever he could think of without worrying about whether it added up to a coherent whole. (We could look at any number of other authors for comparison’s sake. I would suggest Tolkien in _The Hobbit_; he understood that the story becomes stronger when there’s at least a little attention paid to plausibility of what the protagonist is seeing.) The Narnia books have one more weakness: writing. _The Lion , the Witch and the Wardrobe_ has acceptable writing. Wehn Lucy and Susan ride on Aslan’s back it almost approaches good. The other books are atrocious. Here’s the start of _The Silver Chair_ > [@](#): > > It was a dull autmn day and Jill Pole was crying behind the gym. > > She was crying because they had been bullying her. This is not going to be a school story, so I shall say as little as possible about Jill’s school, which is not a pleasant subject. It was “coeducational”, a school for both boys and girls, what used to be called a “mixed” school"; some said it was not nearly so mixed as the minds of the people who ran it. These people had the idea that boys and girls should be allowed to do what they liked. And unfortunately what ten or fifteen of the biggest boys and girls liked best was bullying the others. All sorts of things, horrid things, went on, which at an ordinary school would have been found out and stopped in half a term; but at this school they weren’t. Or even if they were, the people who did them were not expelled or punished. The Head said they were interesting psychological cases and sent for them and talked to them for hours. And if you knew the right sort of things to say to the Head, the main result was that you became rather a favorite than otherwise. You _will not think_ for yourself while reading my books. I will tell you what to think, and you will obey. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/2 "2005-12-06T01:35:24Z")
You have some good points; the series is not Lewis’ best. But noting its imperfections does not mean it is a bad or even overrated series. A pound of Lewis’ crap is far better than ten pounds of most people’s steak. > [@](#): > > You will not think for yourself while reading my books. I will tell you what to think, and you will obey. Huh? Lewis wrote them more or less from the perspectives of the children involved, and that sort of thing shows up a a lot; the viewpoint of the narrator (which may or may not be Lewis) is really just a slightly-more omniscient viewpoint of the child. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/3 "2005-12-06T01:38:09Z")
You’re really trying to prove that your personal opinions make something “crap”? Hoo-boy, do you ever have the wrong board for that. I loved Narnia as a kid. I love 'em as an adult. There’s plenty of children’s books that are considered good or even great literature. I don’t agree with your opinions that the characters are flat or the books are chock-full of filler material. It seems to me that most of the books have a central plan, and I like C.S. Lewis’s writing style. Therefore, I propose that the Narnia books are _underrated_. Go ahead. Prove me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/4 "2005-12-06T02:20:03Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > I do not believe that there can be a good book which is exclusively a children’s book. Certain books are entertaining for children but entirely worthless from an adult’s perspective. Other books, though commonly thought of as children’s literature, are highly entertaining for adults. That’s a mighty curious definition of “good”. A book _must_ appeal to adults, or it isn’t good? What if adults _aren’t the intended audience_? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/5 "2005-12-06T02:24:08Z")
I don’t agree. Nyah. What are you going to do about it? Seriously, you are talking about a work of _fiction_, which is seen _subjectively_. I obviously judge books by a different standard then you, so I think they’re not. They have flaws, like many other books, but the flaws are not glaring enough to distract me. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/6 "2005-12-06T03:11:40Z")
You claim that Lewis’ purpose is to write allegories, and then you say he failed. But if he didn’t set out to write allegories, then the “failure” you ascribe to him has no connection to reality. And it’s quite plain that the Narnia books aren’t meant as allegories – they are, instead, adventure stories in a fantastic land that incorporate Lewis’s own ideas about Christianity. Indeed, the book that, IMO among others, actually does set out to directly tell a story about Christianity (The Last Battle) is the one that fails as an entertaining read, largely because it fails as an adventure story. You do have a point with some of the extra characters being unimportant to the narrative (although I think you’re wrong about Eustace), but that’s not nearly as large a failing as you need it to be. If Peter isn’t fleshed out very much, Lewis also doesn’t spend much time findling with him either, so what’s the damage? Your complaint about the diversity of Lewis’s mythological sources simply makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, why is it that all members of a certain folklore tradition must inevitably take the same side? Have you actually read any myths? They’re _never_ on the same side! Again, you arbitratily decide that Lewis’s purpose must be allegorical because he includes Christian themes, and so any sentence that doesn’t serve the allegory is a failure, or padding. But, again, it’s an adventure story – and all the dryads and fauns and Father Christmas and Pan – throwing all that stuff into a blender is cool. Well whatever. Anyone who can read that passage you quoted and not laugh – even if, like me, you think Lewis’s pedagogical impulses were dead wrong – are tastes are so different there’s no point in my trying to convince you. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/7 "2005-12-06T03:22:54Z")
I thought Lewis’s original intent was to write a set of fairy tales for his goddaughter? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/8 "2005-12-06T03:24:23Z")
I personally never really enjoyed the Narnia books as a child. They weren’t bad, but they were more a labor to me than enjoyable. I do think it’s ridiculous that a book written for children cannot be a great book. In fact I think some books written for a specific age group can indeed be great books, and the fact that they are actually _most_ enjoyed by adolescents or teenagers (depending on the book) makes them treasures to anyone that happens to read them at the appropriate age. For example I really loved John Knowles A Separate Peace, I read it when I was 16 and really enjoyed it. Years later, I wouldn’t enjoy it as much if I reread it, because I’m not 16 anymore and you don’t associate with the characters or the situations in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/9 "2005-12-06T03:44:55Z")
The Chronicles of Prydain were meant to be children’s books, but they are definately classics and great books (and what I point to as being superior to Narnia in almost every respect). But I do agree that they wouldn’t have the same appeal if I read them now. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/10 "2005-12-06T03:52:16Z")
What about _Harry Potter_? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/11 "2005-12-06T04:17:04Z")
How can I tell, I’m reading them as an adult. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/12 "2005-12-06T04:18:15Z")
I could never get into the Narnia books. I read TLTWATW when I was maybe 8 or 9 and I found it too “young” even at that age. I was not captivated by the characters or the story and i thought the adulation of Aslan was kind of embarrassing. I’ve read the book a couple of more times, once as an adult reading the book out loud to a 4th grade classroom, and, again, it just never did much for me. It wasn’t that I thought it was _bad_, just not very compelling. I was never interested enough to read thewhole series, though I did take a stab at _Dawn Treader_ once (after being advised by another teacher that it was best to skip _Prince Caspian_). I got through a few chapters and lost interest. Again, it wasn’t that i thought it was _bad_ so much as it just seemed to much like it was pitched at a 9 year old girl and that there wasn’t much meat for adults. That screed about coed schools the OP quoted made me smile. It sounds like a proto-Rush Limbaugh. What a pointless bit of cheap demagoguery to put in a children’s book. **Apos** , I thought I was the only one who knew about the Prydain books. I loved that series. They start off humorous and light, but the last couple of books in the series have some surprising depth and pathos. Now _that’s_ a series I would love to see adapted to live action films (_The Black Cauldron_ sucked). ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/13 "2005-12-06T04:43:55Z")
Well, in part because it was like, the Black Cauldron and Book of Three mashed into one and missing a few main characters. And a cartoon. 🙂 I’m not sure Taran Wanderer would make a great movie (the climax of the story is a lot of sheep herding and pottery?), but it was a truly great book. Now THAT is a damn powerful coming of age story. I share the just plain lack of interest in Narnia. Tolkien and Prydain were my primary childhood fantasy worlds. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/14 "2005-12-06T04:54:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Consider, just as an example, the listings of creatures in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Any creature from any fairy tale tradition or mythological base shows up. Any at all. There’s no organization, no logic to it. He just needs to make the paragraphs long enough. So the witch has half of Greek mythology on her side, and Aslan has other half? Doesn’t that somewhat spoil the “ye olde England” feel that Lewis was making a feeble attempt at building? Once again, you’re criticizing the author for failing to do something he wasn’t trying to do. He’s creating a mythological place for children (based partly on a world he’d invented as a child). There is clearly logic to it; all the creatures are selected for their traditionally ascribed attributes or their origins. There is little doubt that some of them, especially the more obscure English ones, were suggested by Tolkien. The lengthy listings as well is also a staple of many stories, especially medieval ones in which it was a sign of the bard’s skill to memorize the lists. Since it wasn’t hard to locate them, here’s a listing (probably not complete) : On Aslan’s side : pelicans body of a bull, head of a man deer Dryads Naiads Fauns lions Centaurs unicorns eagles dogs leopards beavers On the Witch’s side: ghouls ogres Boggles Cruels Hags Minotaurs Spectres “people of the Toadstools” Wolves Incubuses Wraiths Horrors Efreets Sprites Orknies, Ettins (from _Beowulf_ “eotenas ond ylfe ond orcneas / swylce gigantas” Wooses (_Sir Gawain_ has “wodwos”, cf. Tolkien’s ‘Woses’) “evil dwarfs and apes” “spirits of evil trees and poisonous plants” Only Sprites are somewhat questionable, but they tend to be portrayed with a bit of a cruelly mischievous streak. Centaurs do have both a positive and negative tradition, but clearly the Narnian ones are in the vein of Cheiron. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/15 "2005-12-06T05:37:35Z")
I’m gonna say some of what others have said, so bear with me: > [@ITR champion](#): > > I hereby assert that the seven fantasy novels written by C. S. Lewis known as _The Chronicles of Narnia_ are a bunch of crap. I will justify this claim. First let me state my premises. > > C. S. Lewis wrote these books as children’s books, obviously. I do not believe that there can be a good book which is exclusively a children’s book. Certain books are entertaining for children but entirely worthless from an adult’s perspective. Other books, though commonly thought of as children’s literature, are highly entertaining for adults. It’s not clear to me what you consider “exclusively” a children’s book. I think a ‘good’ book can be argued as such regardless of the intended audience. In fact, some forms of literary criticism take things like intended audience into account very strongly. If you do take it into account then there are both ‘good’ and ‘bad’ books within the category of ‘written for children’. If you don’t take it into account, then the audience is irrelevant, and you’re basing ‘good’ and ‘bad’ on some other merrits. I think it’s intellectually faulty to blanketly reject writing based on the fact that it was crafted with young people in mind. > [@](#): > > First of all, each book is an allegory for some aspect of Lewis’ take on Christianity. There’s nothing wrong with that. What’s wrong is that the allegories Lewis wants to tell don’t fit the structure he chooses. I see three big problems: > > 1. Each Narnia book is over 200 pages. This often requires Lewis to pad the tale with filler material. In three of the books, the probelm is particularly severe: _Voyage of the Dawn Treader_, _The Horse and his Boy_ and _The Magician’s Nephew._ Padding? Perhaps, but I find them to be rather short books considering the amount of stuff that happens in each. Granted, some are worse than others (I think Prince Caspian, for one, suffers greatly from lack of anything of interest going on), but with two hundred pages of only 28 lines each (in my editions, anyway), even the filler’s not going to take up much space. > [@](#): > > 1. Useless static characters. Frequently the big characters have no purpose. Peter and Susan are blanks in _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_, Eustace is worthless in _The Silver Chair_. Lewis typically makes the point he wants to make with only one character, and the others are milling around trying to find some way to be interesting. I’ll agree with this definitely. I think the characters in general are pretty useless. They are very one dementional at best, and as much as I like the stories, I’ve never felt particularly attached to any of the children. > [@](#): > > These are the big problems. However, they all tie together in one really big problem: Lewis didn’t have a central plan for any of the stories. His idea in each book was to write an allegory. Once he had the allegory going, he simply stuck on whatever bits and pieces he could come up with at random locations. Consider, just as an example, the listings of creatures in _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_. Any creature from any fairy tale tradition or mythological base shows up. Any at all. There’s no organization, no logic to it. He just needs to make the paragraphs long enough. So the witch has half of Greek mythology on her side, and Aslan has other half? Doesn’t that somewhat spoil the “ye olde England” feel that Lewis was making a feeble attempt at building? Essentailly Lewis needed to make those paragraphs long enough, so he just stuck in whatever he could think of without worrying about whether it added up to a coherent whole. I don’t know whether or not I agree with this, so I’ll refrain from commenting one way or the other. 🙂 I will say, though, that the simple fact of mixing and matching mythologies does not, in and of itself, make something poorly written (an example off the top of my head is **Sandman** by Neil Gaiman). The Narnia books have one more weakness: writing. _The Lion , the Witch and the Wardrobe_ has acceptable writing. Wehn Lucy and Susan ride on Aslan’s back it almost approaches good. The other books are atrocious. Here’s the start of _The Silver Chair_ \ You _will not think_ for yourself while reading my books. I will tell you what to think, and you will obey. [/QUOTE] You’ve called this bad writing, but then your only criticism is that you disagree with the point. Granted, it’s a dated bit of social commentary (speaking on the state of English schools at the time… somewhere I was reading about the changes going on in the school system during the time Lewis was writing). I know when I re-read this book a year or so ago I was struck by this same passage. But I’m not sure why it constitutes bad writing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/16 "2005-12-06T06:27:22Z")
It’s at least bad _style_ to jam a mean-spirited political diatribe into a children’s book. I also agree that it comes off as bullying and manipulative. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/17 "2005-12-06T06:49:29Z")
That’s another reason why I like the Prydain series much better. It’s timeless, written as an adventure/coming of age story with some deep a simple passion rather than an instructional. The moral themes run strong, but they are never preachy or triumphant, just celebrations of life and light and comiseration about the hard truths of life, love, heroism, friendship, and loss. In fact, a lot of them are pretty difficult and emotionally wrenching. Taran Wanderer, again, is just a real work of art, though you need to read the series to get to it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/18 "2005-12-06T07:10:48Z")
Agreed on _Taran Wanderer_. An unusually melancholy and introspective book for the genre. Superficially, it seems like the slowest book with the least action and story, but it made the series for me and it sets up the finale. It makes the character’s transformation into a hero and a king credible and resonant rather than rote. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/19 "2005-12-06T07:27:24Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Agreed on _Taran Wanderer_. An unusually melancholy and introspective book for the genre. Superficially, it seems like the slowest book with the least action and story, but it made the series for me and it sets up the finale. It makes the character’s transformation into a hero and a king credible and resonant rather than rote. To continue the hijack, I’ll definitely take Prydain over Narnia. (What is the over/under on that match anyways.) I remember devouring that series in the sixth grade. They felt like the first real novels I ever read, not children stories like Narnia and the Nancy Drew/Hardy Boys mysteries I went through that summer. Probably because the editions I read didn’t look like the children’s titles. Need to go raid the library this week after finals. My problem with the Narnia Chronicles is how I got hit over the head with a hammer with the Last Battle. It felt like a bait and switch. (I wasn’t big on allegories at that age.) It made my appreciate how good the ending of the Return of the King was though. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278/20 "2005-12-06T07:37:02Z")
Speaking of the Narnia/Tolkein comparisons, I think part of the reason that I didn’t enjoy Narnia as much was that I had already read _The Hobbit_. That was probably the first “adult” book I had read (I was about 8). After that, Narnia seemed insubstantial and much less rich. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-are-overrated/334278.md?page=2)