# The Narnia Books: "Racist, Mysoginistic, Reactionary" and Devoid of Love **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 19, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899 "2005-10-19T14:31:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/1 "2005-10-19T14:31:19Z")
Wow, check out this scathing [attack](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1593201,00.html) on CS Lewis’s Narnia books by Philip Pullman, author of another popular series of children’s books, the “His Dark Materials” trilogy. It’s been many years since I last read the Narnia books, but I must say I don’t remember them the way Pullman describes them. At best, I can imagine that the books may have some old-fashioned ideas about gender roles (but even then, didn’t the girls fight in the books? didn’t the older girl have a bow and arrow or something?), and maybe seem a bit militaristic to some modern sensibilities. But the books having “not a trace” of love?? What is Pullman talking about?? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/2 "2005-10-19T14:44:23Z")
I read the books when I was younger. I reread them a few years back, and I found them vaguely distasteful, but I can not remember why. Perhaps he is just operating under the principle that any publicity is good publicity, or perhaps he has a more nuanced critique ot the books yet to be reported. ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/3 "2005-10-19T14:45:55Z")
The guy’s a nut. Yes, the girls did fight, albeit with less destructive weapons than the boys. Devoid of love?? Yeah, right. And I don’t remember any part of the book where racism comes into play. Totally nonsensical review. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/4 "2005-10-19T14:46:14Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Wow, check out this scathing [attack](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1593201,00.html) on CS Lewis’s Narnia books by Philip Pullman, author of another popular series of children’s books, the “His Dark Materials” trilogy. > > It’s been many years since I last read the Narnia books, but I must say I don’t remember them the way Pullman describes them. At best, I can imagine that the books may have some old-fashioned ideas about gender roles (but even then, didn’t the girls fight in the books? didn’t the older girl have a bow and arrow or something?), and maybe seem a bit militaristic to some modern sensibilities. But the books having “not a trace” of love?? What is Pullman talking about?? Is it such a surprise that the author of _His Dark Materials_ is attacking the most promenantly Christian author of the fantasy genre? ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/5 "2005-10-19T14:47:03Z")
Wow, I never knew Pullman was such a pill. Lewis’ books are written from a very British, and very Christian point of view, but I think Mr. Pullman is going a bit overboard. Regarding Misogyny: In general, Lewis’ female characters are no less intelligent or admirable than his male characters, nor have I ever noticed any assumption the the Narnia chronicles of women being subordinate to men (Susan and Lucy were co-equal rulers with their brothers, for instance). In _The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe_, Father Christmas does say that “battles are ugly when women fight”. This is not a surprising attitude considering the time period in which the book was written, nor do I find it particularly misogynist. In any case, by the time Lewis wrote _The Horse and his Boy_ and _The Last Battle_, he had several female characters involved in fighting (Aravis, Lucy and Jill Pole). Regarding Rascism: I admit, the general description of the Calormenes does make me a bit uncomfortable. I would say that it also isn’t surprising considering the time period, but I can’t blame people for disliking the books on that account. As for the books “not having a trace of love”, well, that’s just silly. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/6 "2005-10-19T14:48:45Z")
The man’s an eejit. > [@Philip Pullman](#): > > ‘It’s not the presence of Christian doctrine I object to so much as the absence of Christian virtue. The highest virtue, we have on the authority of the New Testament itself, is love, and yet you find not a trace of that in the books,’ he said. Utter tosh. Aside from the obvious love of even minor characters such as Mr & Mrs Beaver for each other and for innocent children, did Pullman miss the bit where Aslan gets himself killed in order to save Edmund’s life? Or, indeed, Susan and Lucy’s grief for him and joy at his resurrection? Even a man who writes a fantasy trilogy based on the theme that God is a senile hater ought to have more insight than that. Or possibly he’s just stirring shit to attract attention to himself. It must really bite that J K Rowling could hire him to empty her chamber-pot. :rolleyes: Old-fashioned ideas about gender roles? Good God, they were written when - the 1940s? 1950s? Were they meant to anticipate 21st-century post-feminism? :dubious: Susan was given a bow and Lucy a knife, but they were strictly for self-preservation; although in their extended stay in Narnia at the conclusion of TLTW&TW, all the kids grew to adulthood and Lucy became “Queen Lucy the Valiant”, from which you can guess she at least had an Elizabethan aptitude for heartening men for combat, even if a non-participant herself. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/7 "2005-10-19T14:49:26Z")
You know, _Winnie the Pooh_ completely glosses over the very real problem of honey addiction. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/8 "2005-10-19T14:51:41Z")
> [@Orual](#): > > Regarding Rascism: I admit, the general description of the Calormenes does make me a bit uncomfortable. I would say that it also isn’t surprising considering the time period, but I can’t blame people for disliking the books on that account. Can you elaborate? I’ve read all the books, but I don’t remember who or what the Calormenes are or what they’re supposed to look like. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/9 "2005-10-19T14:54:42Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I read the books when I was younger. I reread them a few years back, and I found them vaguely distasteful, but I can not remember why. Also would be good if you can remember any of the reasons you found them distasteful. I did re-read “The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe” and “The Magician’s Nephew” in my late teens, and I liked them as much as I had when I first read them. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/10 "2005-10-19T14:55:00Z")
The bit about “outdated fears of sexuality” is laughable too. Given that all the protagonists (apart from the White Witch, I guess, and Father Christmas) are children or animals, I’d be, like, _really_ worried about people looking for sexual subtexts. Someone else can talk about how “Turkish Delight” is a metaphor for another kind of forbidden fruit, if they like… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/11 "2005-10-19T14:58:52Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Can you elaborate? I’ve read all the books, but I don’t remember who or what the Calormenes are or what they’re supposed to look like. The Calormenes are Evil Arabs. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/12 "2005-10-19T15:00:42Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Can you elaborate? I’ve read all the books, but I don’t remember who or what the Calormenes are or what they’re supposed to look like. We see more of them in “Dawn Treader” and “The Horse and his Boy”, and a bit in “The Last Battle”. Think of them as vaguely “Arabian Nights”, without anything especially Islamic about them - no more than you’d find in a Sinbad or Aladdin movie, at any rate. They are polite, cultured, scrupulously formal, and _in some cases_ wily and dangerous Orientals. They look vaguely Arabic in a pointy-shoes-and-beard kind of way. ---
**Author:** ![audiobottle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@audiobottle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audiobottle)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/13 "2005-10-19T15:05:23Z")
This sucks. I really do like _His Dark Materials_ too. Obviously I’m not going to stop liking them, but I do think Pullman’s going a bit far on this. Maybe the comments are taken out of context? Does anybody have a link to a more complete list of his comments? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/14 "2005-10-19T15:07:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The Calormenes are Evil Arabs. They are arabs, kind of, and a few times show up as quasi-villains. On the other hand, they are never given to be out-and-out evil through and through, and that is mostly due to the unwholesome influence of their deity, Satan. Ironically, as Aslan himself notes, Satan _failed_ to corrupt them. The Calormenes still made a large and prosperous people, and fairly honorable and tolerant. Aslan notes that good people, no matter what temple they wporship in, worship him [Aslan]. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/15 "2005-10-19T15:23:27Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Aslan notes that good people, no matter what temple they worship in, worship him [Aslan]. Yes. Such as the prince who turns up in the last book who, while dutifully attending the services in his homeland, decided that God must be much more exalted and worshipful than his country’s holy men made him. Consequently he discarded the nonsense he was taught and lived his life as a true son of Aslan, and as Aslan said, this was not because he and Tash were identical, but because they were so utterly opposite that no service pleasing to Aslan _could_ be acceptable to Tash, though made with Tash’s name upon the lips; and also vice versa. Also, when at the end of the world all the peoples came before Aslan, Narnians and Calormenes alike divided into two groups; those who could bear Aslan’s glance, and went to salvation, and those who could not, and went to perdition. The implication: that God sees the heart, and pays less attention to religious practice than might be supposed. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/16 "2005-10-19T15:28:07Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > You know, _Winnie the Pooh_ completely glosses over the very real problem of honey addiction. Not to mention Obesity, Diabetes and death from insect sting allegies. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/17 "2005-10-19T15:29:50Z")
So maybe it would be more correct for me to say that the Calamorines are Arabs who worship Satan, and at least one of them isn’t evil? ---
**Author:** ![La\_Llorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@La\_Llorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/La_Llorona)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/18 "2005-10-19T15:31:22Z")
Calormenes also append every mention of the leader of their country (don’t remember his name) with “may he live for ever”, which the Narnians find relatively silly and which I’m fairly certain is meant to remind us of the Muslim use of “pbuh”. ---
**Author:** ![La\_Llorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@La\_Llorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/La_Llorona)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/19 "2005-10-19T15:35:44Z")
Actually, it might be “rule” or “reign”, come to think of it. Anybody have a book handy to check? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899/20 "2005-10-19T15:36:19Z")
> [@La Llorona](#): > > Calormenes also append every mention of the leader of their country (don’t remember his name) with “may he live for ever”, which the Narnians find relatively silly and which I’m fairly certain is meant to remind us of the Muslim use of “pbuh”. Yes, putting words into the mouths of a fictional race in a children’s story for them to speak about their _King_ is bound to remind 1950s children who haven’t the faintest idea what Muslim customs are that Muslims say “peace be upon him” when they mention their _Prophet_. :dubious: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narnia-books-racist-mysoginistic-reactionary-and-devoid-of-love/326899.md?page=2)