# The narrative on "male white privilege" is complete bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 26, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749 "2017-08-26T18:10:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/121 "2017-08-28T03:46:12Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I personally don’t care about the underrepresented of any group at all. Obviously not. You have the luxury, some might say the “privilege”, of not caring about that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/122 "2017-08-28T13:11:00Z")
Straw Men EVERYWHERE! If every group of people would do what they are supposed to do in life, work, save, be respectful, try to further their life and better themselves and obey the laws, problem solved. Some groups follow these courses more than others, the ones that don’t, get left behind and scapegoat a group that does better than them. When speaking about racial issues that is where this fictional “White Privilege” concept comes into play. It exists only to make a group that is marginalized by many of their own actions, feel better about being failures. There is no inherent benefit. Example: The argument about blacks vs. whites being harassed by police is tired. Statistically African-Americans make up a smaller percentage of the total population in the U.S. and have a disproportionately large population in prison. If this is the case, which it is! Then there is something endemically wrong in the black population causing this to happen. It is not stemming from outside factors, although they can contribute once preconceived notions about the group in question, get in place, but that still leaves the original problem to be solved. If any group cannot get ahead in life when given the same opportunities as everyone else, the problem lies within the group, one cannot blame another or say another is at fault for their own shortcomings. It is not some vast conspiracy. If your group does so badly in life and another does a decent job, by comparison it will look as if one group is privileged over the other. It may _seem_ that way, but it doesn’t make it so. “Rich people are privileged because I am poor.” “That guy is better than me because he has a higher IQ” On the surface, seemingly valid, once you examine those phrases, they are fallacious. Same with the white privilege argument. Stop promoting division by stating one group is better off than another. If you believe in white privilege, you are part of the problem, not the solution. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/123 "2017-08-28T13:21:04Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > If any group cannot get ahead in life when given the same opportunities as everyone else, the problem lies within the group, one cannot blame another or say another is at fault for their own shortcomings. Focusing in on this because it contains the disagreement – whether or not black people and other groups, as a whole, have the “same opportunities” as everyone else. Not whether there’s some non-zero chance at success, but whether the chance at success in life is the same for everyone with similar skills, abilities, work ethic, etc. Those of us who believe white privilege (and other forms of privilege) are valid and powerful concepts today believe that, in general, black people and other groups have a significantly lower chance of achieving success due to various forms of discrimination, both official and unofficial, in culture and society, even if this discrimination is less overwhelming than in the past. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/124 "2017-08-28T13:54:40Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > It didn’t cost any significant money because it was a love and barter relationship. > > Lola wasn’t an employee. She was a family member and was treated as such. She had all of her needs taken care of and we loved each other dearly. Wait, wait, [I’m sure I’ve read Lola’s story before](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/lolas-story/524490/)… ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/125 "2017-08-28T17:45:35Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Not at all. I am a senior consultant for a mega-corp with billions of dollars under control. My big boss has a woman as his boss and she is mine too in a way. We don’t really make distinctions based on sex. It is only about competence and that is the way I think it should be. > > I personally don’t care about the underrepresented of any group at all. Either you can do do a certain job or you can’t. This is not a charity. I already have literal Africans that do just great so I don’t want to hear nay excuses. I grew up as a poor boy in rural Louisiana so either do it or don’t. I am so confused. You said before there were more men “at the extremes”, and that that was why more men are CEOs etc. That seems to imply that you believe that while there may be some women who are as talented as the most talented men, it is less likely for a woman to have such talent. Furthermore, if you don’t accept excuses, why are so many more black people poor and otherwise disadvantaged? If each individual’s outcome is the result of personal ability and choices, why do so few black people make choices that will lift them out of poverty? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/126 "2017-08-28T20:17:26Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Furthermore, if you don’t accept excuses, why are so many more black people poor and otherwise disadvantaged? If each individual’s outcome is the result of personal ability and choices, why do so few black people make choices that will lift them out of poverty? They don’t have nannies willing to work just for scraps from the dinner table, that’s why. It’s kind of hard to save money for the future when you’re stupidly wasting money on babysitters and daycare. **Shagnasty** lived in a trailer parked on his grandparents property. Property no doubt resulting from the slave-owning legacy in his family tree. But don’t you go playing the race card, **Manda Jo**! I’m sure **Shagnasty** knows a black person or two who have the exact same story. **Shagnasty** , you have been fired from a job in the past if my savant-like memory serves me correctly. I wonder if your minority colleagues have ever been let go for cause. What do you think? If you were to find out that you are the only one who has ever been fired among your management cohort, how would that change your position wrt to how lucky you’ve been? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/127 "2017-08-29T05:01:07Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have been punched, kicked, slapped, groped and verbally abused by so many women over the years that I have lost count. Leaving off the gropping and verbal abuse, how many women have you been punched, kicked or slapped by since you were an adult? Let’s say after college. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/128 "2017-08-29T06:41:10Z")
I imagine a **Shagnasty** family dinner went something like this: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo6BZiTquk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo6BZiTquk) ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/129 "2017-08-29T15:18:39Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Leaving off the gropping and verbal abuse, how many women have you been punched, kicked or slapped by since you were an adult? Let’s say after college. And if one was the unknowing girl you swapped in on, she doesn’t count as it was self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/130 "2017-08-29T15:24:36Z")
Actually they have also proven that taller, and more attractive people also get certain privileges. It has also been proven that teachers rate the more attractive kids as being more intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/131 "2017-08-29T16:57:29Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > However, I truly do not believe that white men are the most “privileged” people in America these days. That honor goes to white women (including Jewish ones and some Hispanics) and especially the pretty ones. They can get whatever they want and nobody is going to mess with them. My own daughters are spoiled beyond belief and not repressed in any way. I am trying to figure out a way to repress them just a little just so they will know what a struggle feels like but it isn’t working so far. I wanted to address this part of this post since the comment about “knowing how to behave around the police” was addressed. Rape and assault aside, women’s opinions are generally considered less valuable than men’s. We are more likely to be[interrupted during work discussions](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/business/women-sexism-work-huffington-kamala-harris.html)and formal debates. Women are even taken much less seriously in healthcare settings. For example, women tend to deal with more chronic pain than men, yet physicians frequently assume we are being hysterical or weak while we’re just built differently. As a result, we’re less likely to receive important interventions than men, resulting in prolonged illnesses and pain. Additionally, most standards and averages related to health are based on male physiology, not women’s. We have different reactions to cardiovascular disease that make it less likely to be detectable and result in [poorer outcomes](http://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2016-06-22/women-get-worse-cardiac-arrest-care-than-men-study). So yeah, I think that not being able to receive adequate medical care because I’m female and being constantly interrupted because I’m a woman does mean that a man has a certain amount of privilege that I do not. And as a personal anecdote, I can’t get contractors to help me to save my life. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve called a contractor (generally male), asked specific technical questions about the water heater, plumbing, etc. and been immediately told that the contractor wanted to speak with the “man of the house.” Also, my husband’s family considers my job a hobby, and my mom once told me that I really didn’t need any more education because I was supposed to quit my career, get married and start having babies. So that privilege is pretty institutionalized. Beauty has nothing to do with it. So whether your daughters are pretty or not, they’ll likely have to deal with the above as well, just like a black woman would have to wade through obstacles that as a white woman I don’t. It sucks, but it’s reality and it’s important to recognize that it’s there. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/132 "2017-08-29T17:19:59Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > I wanted to address this part of this post since the comment about “knowing how to behave around the police” was addressed. Rape and assault aside, women’s opinions are generally considered less valuable than men’s. We are more likely to be[interrupted during work discussions](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/business/women-sexism-work-huffington-kamala-harris.html)and formal debates. Women are even taken much less seriously in healthcare settings. For example, women tend to deal with more chronic pain than men, yet physicians frequently assume we are being hysterical or weak while we’re just built differently. As a result, we’re less likely to receive important interventions than men, resulting in prolonged illnesses and pain. Additionally, most standards and averages related to health are based on male physiology, not women’s. We have different reactions to cardiovascular disease that make it less likely to be detectable and result in [poorer outcomes](http://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2016-06-22/women-get-worse-cardiac-arrest-care-than-men-study). So yeah, I think that not being able to receive adequate medical care because I’m female and being constantly interrupted because I’m a woman does mean that a man has a certain amount of privilege that I do not. > > And as a personal anecdote, I can’t get contractors to help me to save my life. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve called a contractor (generally male), asked specific technical questions about the water heater, plumbing, etc. and been immediately told that the contractor wanted to speak with the “man of the house.” Also, my husband’s family considers my job a hobby, and my mom once told me that I really didn’t need any more education because I was supposed to quit my career, get married and start having babies. So that privilege is pretty institutionalized. > > Beauty has nothing to do with it. So whether your daughters are pretty or not, they’ll likely have to deal with the above as well, just like a black woman would have to wade through obstacles that as a white woman I don’t. It sucks, but it’s reality and it’s important to recognize that it’s there. And let’s not forget that modern gynecological understanding is based on the work of a dr who experimented, repeatedly, on female slaves he bought for this purpose and w/o anesthesia. Hence the belief that black people and women have a higher pain threshold. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/133 "2017-08-29T17:29:44Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Actually they have also proven that taller, and more attractive people also get certain privileges. > > It has also been proven that teachers rate the more attractive kids as being more intelligent. It’s also been proven that tall, attractive people on average are smarter. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/134 "2017-08-30T03:22:04Z")
I’d like to reccomend the _ **On the Media** _ series [Busted: America’s Poverty Myths](http://www.wnyc.org/series/busted-americas-poverty-myths) while it doesn’t address “white male privilege” directly it does have alot to say about **Shagnasty’s** (and others) assertions that if you just work hard and play the game right you’ll be successful. Particularly in ep3 _Rags to Riches_. . . > [@](#): > > The upward mobility myth, the one that paints America as a nation where everyone has an equal chance to surmount any obstacle and advance from rags to riches. It’s an idea sown on our shores by a Founding Father, himself born into poverty, Benjamin Franklin. . . > . . .several studies suggest that when we feel gratitude, when we’re generous to strangers, when we’re reminded of luck’s importance, we are more likely to plow some of our own good fortune back into the common good. But we underplay luck because we can recall our own struggles far better than the fateful but fuzzy role with chance and because the very idea corrodes our faith in free will, but mostly because, like Benny Franklin, we’re deeply invested in our own autobiographies. . . > Hard work is real, but bootstraps are bunk and social mobility a myth. Unless a nation chooses to build the infrastructure, the roads on which a person can move upward, you pretty much can’t get there from here. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/135 "2017-08-30T12:17:48Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > I’d like to reccomend the _ **On the Media** _ series [Busted: America’s Poverty Myths](http://www.wnyc.org/series/busted-americas-poverty-myths) while it doesn’t address “white male privilege” directly it does have alot to say about **Shagnasty’s** (and others) assertions that if you just work hard and play the game right you’ll be successful. Particularly in ep3 _Rags to Riches_. . . There are plenty of poor white people. Which I believe is one of the main reasons Trump got elected. Poor and working whites don’t feel the “male white privilege”. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/136 "2017-08-30T13:30:38Z")
As a poor white person I still have social privileges. I am far, far more likely to be given the benefit of the doubt in any sort of dodgy situation than someone black. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/137 "2017-08-30T14:55:40Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > There are plenty of poor white people. Which I believe is one of the main reasons Trump got elected. Poor and working whites don’t feel the “male white privilege”. They don’t \*feel \*it b/c when they get a privilege they see it as a thing they’re entitled to; that’s the point. Poor white lady samples grapes in a grocery store, loss prevention staff does nothing. Poor black lady samples grapes in the store, loss prevention is on her for stealing. Or poor black lady gets followed around the only grocery store within 1 mile of her house store by staff fearful she’s going to steal and she feels so uncomfortable she leaves and never goes back, shopping either further away (let’s say she doesn’t have a car) or shops at a store just as close but more expensive or poorer quality food. Poor white lady walks around the first grocery store wholly ignored by staff b/c she’s white and they’ve been trained that it’s black people who steal. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/138 "2017-08-30T16:15:03Z")
Poor white person uses non-standard English. His accent is described as “charming” and “colorful”. Poor black person uses non-standard English. His accent is described as “ghetto” and “stupid”. Poor white guy hooked on opiates triggers compassion and presidential speechifying about the need for more drug addiction treatment centers. Poor black guy hooked on crack triggers fear, calls for more law enforcement, and lectures about “personal responsibility”. People cheer when the poor white student is admitted to a university in spite of bad grades and low test scores. That’s the kind of Affirmative Action they want to see. Poor black person is admitted with the same credentials is seen as “stealing” a spot from a more deserving white or Asian student. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/139 "2017-08-30T16:16:27Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > There are plenty of poor white people. Which I believe is one of the main reasons Trump got elected. Poor and working whites don’t feel the “male white privilege”. They don’t feel it because they have no experience with NOT being a straight white male. It’s hard to understand a larger perspective when all you’ve ever witnessed is a microcosm of society. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749/140 "2017-08-30T18:19:05Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > Oh, it definitely does exist. [. Now this one was just “white names” and “black names” but it clearly shows a difference in treatment with regards to gaining employment (or opportunities for employment, since this was about callbacks). This study didn’t replicate: [http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/aer.20141757](http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/aer.20141757)]([http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.htmlHere’s](http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.htmlHere's) an example[/url) It appears that the original study had a confounder, that names like “Emily” and “Lakisha” don’t just indicate race, they also indicate socioeconomic status. Resumes showing “Lakisha” did get rejected, but probably because of class discrimination rather than racial discrimination. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-narrative-on-male-white-privilege-is-complete-bullshit/794749.md?page=8)