# The Natsarim **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2012, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594 "2012-11-20T07:10:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/41 "2012-11-20T17:20:05Z")
I don’t think many christians will say that having a christmas tree is a biblical requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/42 "2012-11-20T17:20:14Z")
I’m still not clear on what you believe. As far as I can tell, you are Jewish, worship Jesus as Messiah, and don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter. Do you keep the Jewish law from the Old Testament? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/43 "2012-11-20T17:21:39Z")
I ask for the history of your sect through the ages and who it’s prominent leaders may have been, and I get > [@](#): > > History of our sect is in the new testament. It hasn’t progressed well until just recently in the last 20 years or so. In fact there was a long period of time when no one took up the responsibility, but the truth always remains, it cannot be destroyed. About 20 years ago a number of people around the world started asking questions… Geez, could you vague it up just a bit more? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/44 "2012-11-20T17:23:19Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I don’t think many christians will say that having a christmas tree is a biblical requirement. I assume he is arguing they just have the religion and don’t bother with the cultural trappings. I’m skeptical of that claim and I don’t think it’s at all unique; lots of religions make those sorts of back-to-the-basics pitches. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/45 "2012-11-20T17:25:51Z")
What’s wrong with cultural trappings? It’s the cultural trappings I like! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/46 "2012-11-20T17:29:39Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What’s wrong with cultural trappings? It’s the cultural trappings I like! I don’t know, something about “The Truth.” Anyway I am having a lot of trouble believing that group that doesn’t stand out much and which few people have even heard of it very persecuted. Ironically that sounds like a cultural claim intended to unify the group. I suspect someone is confusing mockery or dismissal with actual persecution. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/47 "2012-11-20T17:30:05Z")
Bosstrain: How is my question to you about your judging others not an intelligent question? I asked a specific thing about your religion. Although you don’t say it’s a religion, it sure walks and quacks like one from your description. What about Pentacost? That’s a Christian festival, but the link above says your religion doesn’t celebrate Christian festivals because “they’re all based on pagan festivals.” Well, all Christian festivals are not based on pagan festivals. That does put them in a bind, what with celebrating and not celebrating the very same festival, doesn’t it? By the way, the word you were looking for above is _sowed_, not _sewed_. Also, AFAIK nobody actually believes that the Scriptures say a blessed thing about Christmas trees in the house, or out of the house for that matter. Seems to me that if you’re going to describe others’ posts in this thread as not intelligent, you might do well to foist an intelligent post yourself instead of what you’ve done so far. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/48 "2012-11-20T17:30:44Z")
So you’re basically a Karaite Christian? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/49 "2012-11-20T17:32:24Z")
Why bother telling us about his religion if he has no intention of answering direct questions about it? “Twenty years ago a number of people around started asking questions…” indeed. This runs counter to his earlier claim that his particular cult dates back a couple of thousand years ago-it seems that even Wicca is older than they are. Who are these people that started asking questions? What questions were they asking that hadn’t already been asked over the last couple of thousand years? How did they happen to get together to name and formalize this new religion? Who got the ball rolling? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/50 "2012-11-20T17:34:37Z")
Guess we’re simply not worthy of reading their names. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/51 "2012-11-20T17:34:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I ask for the history of your sect through the ages and who it’s prominent leaders may have been, and I getGeez, could you vague it up just a bit more? I think what he means that in a metaphorical sense, his faith has existed for 2000 years, but in the sense of people actually believing in it, it has existed since the early 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/52 "2012-11-20T17:44:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It seems like some flavor of Messianic Judaism that thinks of itself as the “true Jews” > > Also, “Notsrim” is Hebrew for “Christians.” What’s the Hebrew word for watchman or watch tower? It sounds like twenty years ago, someone got baked and noticed that Notsrim sounds almost like Nazarene, and just ran with it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/53 "2012-11-20T18:07:14Z")
Watchmen–\> שומר Watchtower–\> מגדל ---
**Author:** ![monkeydoodle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@monkeydoodle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monkeydoodle)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/54 "2012-11-20T18:47:30Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > What’s the Hebrew word for watchman or watch tower? > > It sounds like twenty years ago, someone got baked and noticed that Notsrim sounds almost like Nazarene, and just ran with it. Notsrim (Natsarim) sounds like Nazarene because Natseret is the Hebrew name for Nazareth. All from the same Hebrew root. ‘Shomer migdal’ would be the term for ‘tower guard’ ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/55 "2012-11-20T19:38:19Z")
> [@monkeydoodle](#): > > Notsrim (Natsarim) sounds like Nazarene because Natseret is the Hebrew name for Nazareth. All from the same Hebrew root. > > ‘Shomer migdal’ would be the term for ‘tower guard’ The etymology of Nazaretz (Natzeret) is uncertain: it may be from the root N.Tz.R, which means “branch”, or it may be from the root N.T.R., which can mean watch or guard (and probably comes from the fact that the town is on a hill overlooking the Jezreel Valley). The root N.T.R. can be found in the word “Notrim”, which is a somewhat archaic term for watchmen. The word “Notzrim”, or Christians, comes of course from the name of the town. “Natsarim” or “Natzarim” has no Hebrew meaning, and has no grammatical basis I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/56 "2012-11-20T19:43:23Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > It’s the dope. Many of the daily posters live for the day when they get the chance to tell someone their religion is stupid and the poster is stupid for even believing in a religion in the first place. You’ve been around long enough you should have learned that by now. Well now you know. And knowing’s half the battle. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/57 "2012-11-20T20:20:07Z")
I’m still not clear on how this is a “Great Debate”. No argument or hypotheticals were posed in the OP. Seems more like an attempt at recruitment. Maybe move it to MPISMS? All we’re debating is how silly a sect this is. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/58 "2012-11-20T20:28:08Z")
It’s ‘witnessing’ which is lumped into Great Debates. Forum descriptions: learn it, live it, love it. ---
**Author:** ![romadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@romadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romadea)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/59 "2012-11-20T22:10:43Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > [Here’s a website dedicated to Natsarim](http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/NATSARIM.html) . Okay, the photos at the top of that page are scary as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/60 "2012-11-20T22:12:32Z")
> [@romadea](#): > > Okay, the photos at the top of that page are scary as hell. I think we must have misunderstood. It isn’t the movement that’s 20 years old – it’s the web page. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594.md?page=4)