# The Natsarim **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2012, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594 "2012-11-20T07:10:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/101 "2012-12-06T08:53:26Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I initially read that as “Karate Christian”. Would totally watch. [Here you go](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfkHkdu5IEI). Warning: zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/102 "2012-12-06T14:52:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yau Hay Vau Hay is one way to pronounce the name, but I’ve always been partial to YaHoo WaHoo. 😃 Entirely permissible by Christian and Jewish esoteric. So, perhaps God is akin to an Internet-service fish? In a book or movie Woody Allen wondered why someone could be so touchy about having his name mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/103 "2012-12-06T14:57:27Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What’s wrong with cultural trappings? It’s the cultural trappings I like! Good point. The Reconstructionist branch of Judaism is based on this. I wonder what any conscious human activity without cultural trappings could be. Or many another species. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/104 "2012-12-06T15:03:25Z")
I missed out on a lot of persecutin’, cause I never heard of them. Everybody else must’ve gotten the memo. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/105 "2012-12-06T15:07:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > [Here you go](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfkHkdu5IEI). Warning: zombies. I knew, without first looking, what that link would be. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/106 "2012-12-06T15:13:36Z")
> [@Bosstrain](#): > > I highly doubt that wikipedia has enough information to even determine what a Natsarim is. It’s a rapidly growing belief, but it’s been around for thousands of years. Only two thousand years ago did it acquire the term Natsarim. > > I do not take your sarcasm lightly, the Creator has a name…but I feel you are far from worthy of even reading it. > > I made this thread to be serious, if I was a lesser man I would be insulted by such responses. I will, however, look past this. Surely, Natsarim _are_; the word is obviously plural. Googling gave me a few hits, including something on YouTube–I chose not to click. If you wish to testify, please _ **testify!** _ Until you do, I’ll just assume the Natsarim are an offshoot of Jews for Jesus… ---
**Author:** ![TruthSeeker88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@TruthSeeker88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruthSeeker88)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/107 "2016-12-13T05:55:55Z")
Hey OP! I am also a Natsarim and it is wonderful to meet you if you are still monitoring this thread. Don’t take the insults of the nations personally; remember that Yahushua told us that we would be ridiculed for our belief. Remain strong, trust in YHWH, and love our enemies. Do not bring yourself to their level. You know the Truth and one day they will know too. One day every knee will bow and every tongue confess that YAH is Elohim. You know that what you say is correct that the eyes of the people are being opened to the Truth in the end of days. You are not alone and hope to hear from you again. Your brother in Messiah, Aharon ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/108 "2016-12-13T08:07:32Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Hell, even the Amish have a wiki page. How did that happen? Someone been breakin’ the rules? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/109 "2016-12-13T09:19:05Z")
> [@TruthSeeker88](#): > > … You know that what you say is correct… But…He hasn’t said anything. _Anything_. Not then and not for over 4 bloody years. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/110 "2016-12-13T09:50:52Z")
Darn, I thought the Messiah had returned but it seems **Bosstrain** is still otherwise engaged. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/111 "2016-12-13T11:30:15Z")
> [@TruthSeeker88](#): > > Don’t take the insults of the nations personally; remember that Yahushua told us that we would be ridiculed for our belief. You realize, of course, that being ridiculed is not in itself confirmation that your beliefs are correct. We would ridicule you if you worshipped kittens or thought that SPAM was the living flesh of the Messiah, but that wouldn’t add any credence to those beliefs either. Also: thanks for letting us know the Name of the Creator. Four years ago we weren’t worthy. I guess we are now. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/112 "2016-12-13T12:11:42Z")
My views and those of other Mirastan are in direct opposition. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/113 "2016-12-15T05:10:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Natsarim has a very Tolkien-ish sound to it. My first thought was “Nazi” with the Hebrew plural tacked on. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/114 "2016-12-15T05:46:24Z")
Still not a word in Wiki about this group-you stil have to go to [Lew White’s website](http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/messianicchristian.html) for any info about these guys. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/115 "2016-12-15T05:55:03Z")
And here is an interesting little expose of Lew White, the leader of this group. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/116 "2016-12-15T08:06:07Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > My first thought was “Nazi” with the Hebrew plural tacked on. 😃 A couple of days ago, more out of boredom than curiosity, I did a quick Internet search of “Natsarim”. One of their sites is hawking their edited version of the Old Testament with “Chronicles” spelled as “Kronicles”. My first thought was, “David D, you sly old dog”. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/117 "2016-12-15T13:40:39Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > One of their sites is hawking their edited version of the Old Testament with “Chronicles” spelled as “Kronicles”. My first thought was, “David D, you sly old dog”. Nah, Dave Davies spelled it [Kronikles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kink_Kronikles). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/118 "2016-12-15T13:54:01Z")
> [@Bosstrain](#): > > If you put Christianity and Judaism together, remove the Christian holidays, remove the Talmud, add in the restored names and text in Scripture (most importantly the true name of the Creator/Messiah), remove the belief in the trinity and only follow what the Scriptures actually say, then you get the Natsarim belief. If you put Christianity and Judaism together, remove the religion, but keep the barbecue and Jewish pastries, then you’ve got a faith I can endorse. ---
**Author:** ![NightRider\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ba8739/32.png) [@NightRider\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRider_1)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/119 "2018-06-16T14:01:52Z")
נצר I The root verb נצר (nasar I) means to watch, guard or keep. BDB Theological Dictionary divides the applications of this verb into five categories: ``` To watch, guard or keep, for instance a vineyard (Job 27:18, Isaiah 27:3) or a fig tree (Proverbs 27:18), or men (Job 7:20). From this usage stems the word נצרים (nasarim), which means watchmen (Jeremiah 31:6) or perhaps besiegers (Jeremiah 4:16; see below). None of the sources used reckons this word as a (plural) noun, and BDB Theological Dictionary deems it a passive participle. Our verb is also used in an ethical sense: guarding one's mouth (Proverbs 13:3) or tongue (Psalm 34:13), one's way (Proverbs 16:17), and one's heart (Proverbs 4:23). To preserve or guard from dangers (Deuteronomy 32:10, Psalm 25:21, Isaiah 26:3). From this usage stems the adjective נציר (nsyr), meaning the preserved (Isaiah 49:6 only). To guard with fidelity, to keep or observe: loving-kindness (Exodus 34:7), a covenant (Deuteronomy 33:9), God's commandments (Psalm 78:7), parental commandments (Proverbs 6:20) and wisdom and discretion (Proverbs 3:21). To keep (guard) secrets: secret things (Isaiah 48:6), secret places (Isaiah 65:4), or wily intentions of the heart (Proverbs 7:10) To keep closed; blockaded or besieged (Isaiah 1:8, Jeremiah 4:16, Ezekiel 6:12) ``` נצר II The root verb נצר (nasar II) isn’t used in the Bible but in Arabic it means to be fresh or bright or grow green. In the Bible only the masculine noun נצר (neser) occurs (four times), and that noun means branch or shoot. Isaiah uses it three times, once in Isaiah 11:1, where it denotes the Messiah, and once in Isaiah 60:21, where it denotes the crop God expects to grow in Israel. In Isaiah 14:19 this noun conveys a much more negative charge, as the prophet speaks of the king of Babylon as a rejected branch. Finally, the prophet Daniel uses this noun when he talks about a descendant of the daughter of the king of the South (of her “branch”). ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594/120 "2018-06-16T14:31:34Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > **Bosstrain** - I have a few questions specifically about your personal beliefs. > > - How long have you been a Natsarim? > > - What religion were you born into? Did you go directly from that religion to being a Natsarim, or did you abandon your prior religion (to atheism?) first? > > - What about the Natsarim appeals to you? Why did you choose it as a belief system? I wouldn’t say that you pause between religions as an atheist, I would say you go through a period of agnosticism. If you went atheist that means you don’t believe in a particular religious system, agnosticism is when you aren’t certain where the diety is hiding [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-natsarim/641594.md?page=7)