# The Nazis Were Funded by wall street **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364 "2013-08-05T03:08:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/181 "2013-08-08T20:33:25Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The Druids are behind it all… Funny. They didn’t look Druish. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/182 "2013-08-08T22:15:53Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > For one, Walter Kappe, the organizer of the Nazi saboteur ring that landed on Long Island in 1942 and was captured and executed, was a longtime American resident and leader of the Bund. Check on Google Books or the web for any number of citations. This is just pathetic. Check on Google Books or the web for any number of citations indeed. [Wiki](http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Walter_Kappe) > [@](#): > > Walter Kappe is believed to have survived the war. You’ve also named the only attempt by Nazi Germany to attempt to plant saboteurs into the US which is so well known because it failed so spectacularly. Note also that this was attempted sabotage by Nazi Germans trying to slip into the country, not attempted sabotage by Americans of German descent. Walter Kappe wasn’t even living in America anymore, he had returned to live in Germany in 1937. > [@](#): > > “Public demonstrations against the war” by the disproportionately German America First and the exclusively German Bund is the only thing those groups did or were constituted to do, so unless you are denying that they existed, it’s hard to avoid noticing their activities. So you can point to a single demonstration against the war by one of these groups then, right? “Public demonstrations against the war” is most certainly **not** what these groups did or were constituted to do. You seem not to have noticed that the infamous 20,000 man speech by the Bund (which you ludicrously claim demonstrates the existence of 2,000,000 pro-Nazi sympathizers) happened on February 20, 1939. It’s rather hard for them to be protesting against America entering a war that hadn’t even happened yet. Hitler invaded Poland on September 1, 1939. The German American Bund itself was formed on March 29, 1936. Again, since you claim the activities of these groups are hard to avoid noticing, you can actually point to a single demonstration against the war that occurred at some point after the war had you know, occurred, right? Much less a protest by the Bund after America was actually at war with Germany. So you’re 0 for 2. Want to try for any of the remaining? 1. Resistance to the draft by pro-Nazi German-Americans. 2. Spy rings of pro-Nazi German-Americans reporting to the Nazis 3. A fifth column of pro-Nazi German-Americans working to subvert the war effort. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/183 "2013-08-08T22:22:30Z")
So, Herr Dissonance, what was the Bund, then? Just a bunch of like-minded cultural individuals promoting the consumption of sauerkraut? Everyone knew the war was coming and the U.S. would have to pick a side. Just like the massive demonstrations for and against the Iraq war in 2002 and 2003 before it actually began, these groups were attempting to influence the course of American participation. That you are seriously doubting the Bund’s constitution as a pro-Nazi organization or that the purpose of America First was to convince the U.S. to sit the war out because it didn’t want the Allies to gain our support is incredible. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/184 "2013-08-08T23:31:53Z")
The Bund was clearly pro-Nazi. I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. But they were a bunch of cranks without any sort of significant following. America First was a more diverse group, made up of a combination of nativists, fascists, pacifists, isolationists, anti-Roosevelt people, etc, but it, as a group, wasn’t pro-Nazi, even though some individual members were. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/185 "2013-08-08T23:37:46Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > So you can point to a single demonstration against the war by one of these groups then, right? “Public demonstrations against the war” is most certainly **not** what these groups did or were constituted to do. You seem not to have noticed that the infamous 20,000 man speech by the Bund (which you ludicrously claim demonstrates the existence of 2,000,000 pro-Nazi sympathizers) happened on February 20, 1939. It’s rather hard for them to be protesting against America entering a war that hadn’t even happened yet. Hitler invaded Poland on September 1, 1939. The German American Bund itself was formed on March 29, 1936. Again, since you claim the activities of these groups are hard to avoid noticing, you can actually point to a single demonstration against the war that occurred at some point after the war had you know, occurred, right? Much less a protest by the Bund after America was actually at war with Germany. > > So you’re 0 for 2. Want to try for any of the remaining? > > 1. Resistance to the draft by pro-Nazi German-Americans. > 2. Spy rings of pro-Nazi German-Americans reporting to the Nazis > 3. A fifth column of pro-Nazi German-Americans working to subvert the war effort. > [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > So, Herr Dissonance, what was the Bund, then? Just a bunch of like-minded cultural individuals promoting the consumption of sauerkraut? Everyone knew the war was coming and the U.S. would have to pick a side. Just like the massive demonstrations for and against the Iraq war in 2002 and 2003 before it actually began, these groups were attempting to influence the course of American participation. > > That you are seriously doubting the Bund’s constitution as a pro-Nazi organization or that the purpose of America First was to convince the U.S. to sit the war out because it didn’t want the Allies to gain our support is incredible. **Condescending Robot** , you’d be much more persuasive if you actually answered what **Dissonance** is asking. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/186 "2013-08-08T23:48:47Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > “Better Dead than Red.” > [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Frank Burns eats worms. You tell him, ferret-face. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/187 "2013-08-08T23:51:02Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > So, Herr Dissonance, what was the Bund, then? Just a bunch of like-minded cultural individuals promoting the consumption of sauerkraut? Everyone knew the war was coming and the U.S. would have to pick a side. Just like the massive demonstrations for and against the Iraq war in 2002 and 2003 before it actually began, these groups were attempting to influence the course of American participation. > > That you are seriously doubting the Bund’s constitution as a pro-Nazi organization or that the purpose of America First was to convince the U.S. to sit the war out because it didn’t want the Allies to gain our support is incredible. Nobody is arguing that the Bund wasn’t a pro-Nazi organization. What we’re saying is wrong is your claim that the Bund had millions of members, had any significant influence or power, and was widely supported by German-Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/188 "2013-08-09T00:45:20Z")
So I take it that’s a no, you have absolutely no evidence that you can present. > [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Everyone knew the war was coming and the U.S. would have to pick a side. Just like the massive demonstrations for and against the Iraq war in 2002 and 2003 before it actually began, these groups were attempting to influence the course of American participation. In 1936? Are you serious? Oh and by the way, you still haven’t shown a single demonstration against American involvement in the war by the Bund. Considering that the Bund was made illegal when the US entered the war it’d have been pretty hard for them to do. > [@](#): > > That you are seriously doubting the Bund’s constitution as a pro-Nazi organization or that the purpose of America First was to convince the U.S. to sit the war out because it didn’t want the Allies to gain our support is incredible. I hope you have a fire extinguisher handy, that big of a straw man is a fire hazard. You can of course point to where I said the Bund wasn’t a pro-Nazi organization just as you have been able to come up with evidence for everything else you’ve claimed. What’s truly sad is the one time you tried to provide evidence you managed to not only be wrong, but so spectacularly wrong. Walter Kappe wasn’t the leader of the Bund, he wasn’t captured and he wasn’t executed. He hadn’t even lived in America for five years in 1942. The extent of his involvement in the failed landing of all of 8 German saboteurs by U-boat was training them in the outskirts of Berlin. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/189 "2013-08-09T00:56:44Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > What’s truly sad is the one time you tried to provide evidence you managed to not only be wrong, but so spectacularly wrong. Walter Kappe wasn’t the leader of the Bund, he wasn’t captured and he wasn’t executed. He hadn’t even lived in America for five years in 1942. The extent of his involvement in the failed landing of all of 8 German saboteurs by U-boat was training them in the outskirts of Berlin. Just by the way, he didn’t say Kappe was captured and executed. He said that Kappe organized the saboteur ring that landed on Long Island, was captured and executed. As in, the saboteur ring was captured and executed, not Kappe. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/190 "2013-08-09T01:04:09Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The Druids are behind it all… We will worship like the Druids Running naked through the wuids Drinking strange, fermented fluids And that’s good enough for me! ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/191 "2013-08-09T02:40:16Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Just by the way, he didn’t say Kappe was captured and executed. He said that Kappe organized the saboteur ring that landed on Long Island, was captured and executed. As in, the saboteur ring was captured and executed, not Kappe. /shrug Perhaps that is what he meant, but if so he didn’t correct my erroneous interpretation when I cited that it is believed he survived the war. Either way, he also described him as the leader of the Bund and a longtime American resident. He was never the leader of the Bund, he was its press secretary for a time, and he was a _former_ longtime resident of the US. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/192 "2013-08-09T02:41:43Z")
[We all know about them Bundists.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalag_17) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/193 "2013-08-09T04:16:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [We all know about them Bundists.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalag_17) Say what you will about their politics, you have to love their cakes. ---
**Author:** ![jaedon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@jaedon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaedon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/194 "2013-08-09T07:44:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Say what you will about their politics, you have to love their cakes. I would definitely not. Who could love their politics and their SS men! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/195 "2013-08-09T09:21:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Say what you will about their politics, you have to love their cakes. Those are the Bundtists you’re thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364/196 "2013-08-09T14:52:51Z")
Then they held that sports festival and Superman busted it up… Oh, wait, those were the Dukalians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nazis-were-funded-by-wall-street/665364.md?page=9)