# The NCAA needs to lighten up on tOSU. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 8, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109 "2011-05-08T00:58:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/61 "2011-05-30T15:50:28Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > OK, so you have a D1 school that has 80 football athletes on full scholarship. If they have a good team maybe 3 or 4 or 5 of them will get a big payday in the NFL. > > So here’s the problem. You make the argument that the rest have the benefit of a free college education at a major institution. Consider that in order to maintain that scholarship they have to devote 20 hours a week to practice not including conditioning and physical therapy. What this really leads to is essentially holding down a full time job while taking a full load at college. Conditioning, therapy and tutoring take a lot of time. > > Yes, for a few it works and is a bowl of cherries. For others, it is a grueling experience. > > In D2 it is 20 hours a week including therapy and conditioning. A little better, not a full time job, but still a lot to ask of a teenager who is going to college with little hope of a professional career. There are plenty of college students who have a full load of classes AND work 15-20 hours per week in order to pay their bills. Despite this, they will emerge from college with tens of thousands of dollars in student loans. So I’m not going to feel sorry for the players who graduate without a single dollar of debt. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/62 "2011-05-30T15:54:25Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Jim Tressel [resigned](http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6606999)from Ohio State. > > Edited to add: Scooped as I was typing it in. He couldn’t face the horror of having to attend that 5 day conference at the resort. Some punishments are just too cruel. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/63 "2011-05-30T16:03:04Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > There are plenty of college students who have a full load of classes AND work 15-20 hours per week in order to pay their bills. Despite this, they will emerge from college with tens of thousands of dollars in student loans. So I’m not going to feel sorry for the players who graduate without a single dollar of debt. That’s nothing more than sour grapes and is irrelevant to the issue anyway. What if your employer colluded with everyone else in your industry to give you no more than they wanted to give you and said nothing more than “were not actually making you take loans in order to work for us, so you should be satisfied.” The question of whether our educational funding system makes sense is a separate one. In any case, the school isn’t actually profiting from other students’ labor and colluding to deny them compensation. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/64 "2011-05-30T16:26:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s nothing more than sour grapes and is irrelevant to the issue anyway. What if your employer colluded with everyone else in your industry to give you no more than they wanted to give you and said nothing more than “were not actually making you take loans in order to work for us, so you should be satisfied.” I’d probably ask myself why I entered that industry - and come to the conclusion that I’m getting enormous benefit from being in that industry, and while a similar industry exists I could have entered without any of those restrictions, the long term upside here far outweighs anything I have to put up with in the short term. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/65 "2011-05-30T17:34:34Z")
The most important reason you don’t work in an industry like that is because it’s illegal. The same as it should be for college athletics. Regardless of what future upsides there might be you can’t collude to deny workers current compensation for their work. Furthermore, the potential upside exists only for a tiny minority. For the rest of them, college represents the peak of their ability, performance, and potential as athletes and that is exactly the time that they are dined compensation. The proper parallel is not the kind of job that most students get while in school, but rather the jobs that they have at their peak earning potential, which just happens to be later in life for non-athletes. It’s only a fair comparison if you’re willing to work fir nothing during those dive years when you’re at the relative top of your lifetime income curve. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/66 "2011-05-30T19:54:57Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > Fortunately for Tressel, his retirement was vested. I saw what you did there. Very nice! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/67 "2011-05-30T19:58:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The most important reason you don’t work in an industry like that is because it’s illegal. The same as it should be for college athletics. > > Regardless of what future upsides there might be you can’t collude to deny workers current compensation for their work. > > \*\*Furthermore, the potential upside exists only for a tiny minority. For the rest of them, college represents the peak of their ability, performance, and potential as athletes and that is exactly the time that they are dined compensation. \*\* > > The proper parallel is not the kind of job that most students get while in school, but rather the jobs that they have at their peak earning potential, which just happens to be later in life for non-athletes. It’s only a fair comparison if you’re willing to work fir nothing during those dive years when you’re at the relative top of your lifetime income curve. But without the college/NCAA system, most of these athletes would get nothing for their talents. If you started a professional league in the US for 18-21 year olds, you wouldn’t have over a hundred teams. You’d have significantly fewer than that. Having the collegiate system actually helps far more players than it hurts. Hundreds are given free college educations when they have no realistic prospect of playing professionally. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/68 "2011-05-30T20:02:02Z")
OSU should have to forfeit every game of the 2010 season, including the Sugar Bowl. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/69 "2011-05-30T20:25:06Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > OSU should have to forfeit every game of the 2010 season, including the Sugar Bowl. Especially the Sugar Bowl? Since it was against WooPigSooie? :D:p ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/70 "2011-05-30T20:30:33Z")
Never crossed my mind. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/71 "2011-05-30T20:33:15Z")
Every game except the Sugar Bowl. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/72 "2011-05-30T20:35:22Z")
I’ll settle for an big fat asterisk. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/73 "2011-05-30T21:00:02Z")
To be fair, though, I think Tressel is only guilty of succumbing to the system. The NCAA and Bowl people are the real culprits. As long as this whole farcical charade keeps going on, coaches and players will keep getting exploited and sent through the meat grinder, with a small percentage managing to have enough success to transcend the madness. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/74 "2011-05-30T22:22:31Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > To be fair, though, I think Tressel is only guilty of succumbing to the system. The NCAA and Bowl people are the real culprits. As long as this whole farcical charade keeps going on, coaches and players will keep getting exploited and sent through the meat grinder, with a small percentage managing to have enough success to transcend the madness. Coaches can make 5 mill a year. That explains their cheating. The NCAA can not police all the schools. It is designed to fail. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/75 "2011-05-31T00:30:06Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > I’ll settle for an big fat asterisk. That’s been in use, dotting the _i_, since the 2003 Fiesta Bowl. PI, Terry Porter? Not quite. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/76 "2011-05-31T01:48:37Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Coaches can make 5 mill a year. That explains their cheating. > The NCAA can not police all the schools. It is designed to fail. To be fair, Tressel didn’t cheat (or at least there is no indication of it). His crime was covering up violations by his players. Inexcusable, and the resignation/firing is deserved, but it isn’t as though he was handing out wads of cash. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/77 "2011-05-31T02:15:20Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > Yep, an 18 yr old kid has got a great chance of success, as an ex-patriot. The word is expatriate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/78 "2011-05-31T03:02:41Z")
[Sports Illustrated’s cover story on Tressel and OSU](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/magazine/05/30/jim.tressel/index.html#ixzz1NtPJd6aw), which - prepare to pretend to be surprised - suggests that the violations at OSU under Tressel involved way more players and went on for much longer than anyone has acknowledged so far. This is hardly the most important detail from the story but it gives you an idea: > [@](#): > > One of Tressel’s duties [as an assistant coach] then was to organize and run the Buckeyes’ summer camp. Most of the young players who attended it would never play college football, but a few were top prospects whom Ohio State was recruiting. At the end of camp, attendees bought tickets to a raffle with prizes such as cleats and a jersey. According to his fellow assistant, Tressel rigged the raffle so that the elite prospects won – a potential violation of NCAA rules. Says the former colleague, who asked not to be identified because he still has ties to the Ohio State community, “In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach. Then, in the afternoon, he would go out and cheat kids who had probably saved up money from mowing lawns to buy those raffle tickets. That’s Jim Tressel.” ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/79 "2011-05-31T04:09:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Sports Illustrated’s cover story on Tressel and OSU](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/magazine/05/30/jim.tressel/index.html#ixzz1NtPJd6aw), which - prepare to pretend to be surprised - suggests that the violations at OSU under Tressel involved way more players and went on for much longer than anyone has acknowledged so far. This is hardly the most important detail from the story but it gives you an idea: That squares with a guy that would wear vests and thought it looked cool. I tend to think that if Tressel hadn’t been a football coach he would have been a Catholic priest. The guy has issues. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109/80 "2011-05-31T04:56:27Z")
Tressel’s program was mega dirty. It involves players from his second year on. They did not want to force him out. They were beating Michigan regularly. Now they will vacate the victories and Michigan will be on a 6 game winning streak against THE Ohio State cheaters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ncaa-needs-to-lighten-up-on-tosu/581109.md?page=5)