# The Need to Win and the Death of Civility **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2000, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-need-to-win-and-the-death-of-civility/25742 "2000-07-16T17:01:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-need-to-win-and-the-death-of-civility/25742/21 "2000-07-19T01:38:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dal\_timgar \* > \*\*what exactly does being an honor student mean? \*\* It means a student has worked hard to achieve a high academic performance. A lot of honor students are also involved in extra-curricular activities. > [@](#): > > \*\* > my senior year in highschool, a kid that had gotten straight A’s until then got a B in math. he cried in class. \*\* Takes all kinds I guess. I never knew an honor student get that upset about a B. But then I’ve seen students throw tantrums for all sorts of stupid reasons. Of course I didn’t see much of that at the senior level myself. > [@](#): > > \*\* > i almost burst out laughing. then i thought about the hundreds of hours he spent doing idiotic homework assignment from which he learned absolutely nothing useful. \*\* Yeah, we all know that math skills aren’t useful at all in life. In fact I can’t think of any decent paying occupation that requires a lot of math. And not to mention that he never learned how to set goals and acomplish them! What a nerd. > [@](#): > > \*\* > i got straight D’s in religion my freshman year. plenty of times i didn’t do all the math homework, just the 3 hardest problems. i’d get an A on the test but a B grade because i didn’t do the homework. History was only worth C’s because it’s nowhere near cynical enough to be accurate. \*\* The only people I can remember from high school who bragged about bad grades were losers. I know I know you’re going to tell us how successful you’ve become in spite of not “wasting” all that time in high school doing homework. > [@](#): > > \*\* > our schools are partly propaganda machines not truth machines. being an honor student means following orders without thinking. > > ``` > Dal Timgar ** > > ``` Actually being an honor student simply means they met certain academic requirements. Most of the honor students I knew were intelligent and pretty good at thinking for themselves. Marc ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-need-to-win-and-the-death-of-civility/25742/22 "2000-07-19T01:54:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Takes all kinds I guess. I never knew an honor student get that upset about a B. But then I’ve seen students throw tantrums for all sorts of stupid reasons. Of course I didn’t see much of that at the senior level myself. Of course, he could have been like me and have a parent who was emotionally abusive to him if he didn’t bring back perfect grades. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-need-to-win-and-the-death-of-civility/25742/23 "2000-07-19T06:53:09Z")
Gadarene wrote: > [@](#): > > Reconstruction was a surprisingly progressive time–South Carolina and Louisiana were possessed of black legislative majorities, three Southern states had integrated schools, Southern black men became policemen, lawyers, jury members, judges…only to see all that progress crumble away, beginning with the Hayes-Tilden Compromise of 1877. As far as I know, the Reconstruction period only appeared “progressive” because Federal troops were there in all the Southern states forcing them to be “progressive.” They made sure all the newly-freed slaves voted in the elections (as they should), while at the same time disenfranchising many of the white former slave owners from being allowed to vote because they had “sided with the rebellion.” As soon as the Federal troops stopped pointing their guns at the Southern states’ heads, Jim Crow laws and poll taxes with Grandfather clauses popped up and put the Southern blacks right back where they started. It is important to note that, during the entire Reconstruction period, not one **northern** black person was elected to high office or held a position of stature. ---
**Author:** ![DRY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@DRY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRY)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-need-to-win-and-the-death-of-civility/25742/24 "2000-07-19T07:38:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gadarene \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > > \*\*BratMan007 wrote: > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > Jackie Robinson was the first black player signed to the Major Leagues, who was 2nd? > > > > Leroy “Satchel” Page. > > He was one hell of a pitcher, too. \*\* > > _Ack_shally, Moses Fleetwood Walker was the first black player signed by the major leagues. [1884.](http://www.majorleaguebaseball.com/u/baseball/mlbcom/nbl/walker.htm) > \*\* Well, if the question is supposed to be asking "Who was the first black player to play in the majors after Jackie Robinson broke the color line, the answer is Larry Doby of the Cleveland Indians. ---
**Author:** ![Irrevere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ebca7d/32.png) [@Irrevere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irrevere)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-need-to-win-and-the-death-of-civility/25742/25 "2000-07-19T09:38:46Z")
My first post on a message board in years. How fun! Anyways, in response to the things said about straight “a” students. All I know is that there were plenty of free thinking honors kids, but most of them, and certainly the best of them (including our Vale- and Salu-dictorian \) were complete zombies. I don’t know if it is their desire to win or a feeling that schoolastic achievment is important to having worth or what, but they certainly had something other than thoughful insight dominating their decisions about what to do on a friday night. And another thing. Someone said not to knock someone else’s achievement simpply because their priorities differ from yours. My reply is, he (or maybe just I) wasn’t knocking their achievments but rather their priorities themselves. Maybe I’ll post again in the future. He he. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-need-to-win-and-the-death-of-civility/25742/26 "2000-07-19T12:35:45Z")
Small observation re grades: I recall when I was in H.S., and have heard recent stories, of kids with high GPs foregoing certain electives they wanted to take because they were only offered as regular classes, instead of honors or AP. So if they were competing for top rank, they wanted to take as many honors/AP classes as possible where an A was worth more. Probably didn’t scar anyone for life, but a little unfortunate methinks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-need-to-win-and-the-death-of-civility/25742.md?page=1)