# The neverending homophobia of the Salvation Army **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 1, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663 "2011-12-01T03:29:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/61 "2011-12-05T00:41:01Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Elie Wiesel, of course, was writing about the Holocaust. So of course “to be silent and indifferent” in the case of the SA is less of a sin than not to help anyone at all. Lesser of two evils, and all. Yes, but in this case, you have an option that is not evil at all: donate to a charity that doesn’t actively discriminate. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/62 "2011-12-05T01:41:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes, but in this case, you have an option that is not evil at all: donate to a charity that doesn’t actively discriminate. Exactly, it’s about standing by and letting it happen. Actually, worse: actively (financially) supporting discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/63 "2011-12-05T01:57:25Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I am no apologist for the Salvation Army but in the interests of accuracy, that was refuted in [another post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14520696#post14520696) in this very thread, in which **DrDeth** linked to an article in which a PR manager for the SA says that they don’t discriminate in whom they help. Maybe you could ask actual LGBT people (or the people who know them) who _have_ been [turned away](http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/11/22/walk-on-by-salvation-army-bell-ringers) by the Salvation Army? > [@](#): > > Three years ago one of my community college students became homeless during the semester. The only shelter in our midwestern capitol city with any openings for women and children was a SA shelter. This lesbian household was told they had two choices: One of them could live on the street and the shelter would take the other mom and the kids as a “family,” or they could all sleep on the street. My student let her partner and kids be a “family” in the eyes of those abusive fuckers while she slept outside. Two school employees even called to try to intervene. My dear great aunt dedicated her life to working with the SA, but that evil organization will never get a cent of my money. > [@](#): > > …the Sally runs a decent inpatient drug/alcohol rehab next to their store by Safeco Field. With the shutdown of public health rehabs, it’s one of the few options left for poor people trying to kick. Patients need to stay in the closet or get booted. Booted with a sweet Christian smile, but booted. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/64 "2011-12-05T02:01:12Z")
Since the link provided by the OP didn’t provide any cites, I did a bit of digging around. They are indeed actively anti-gay rights and I cannot support that. I haven’t dropped money in the kettles since then, although it makes me sad not doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/65 "2011-12-05T04:49:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes, but in this case, you have an option that is not evil at all: donate to a charity that doesn’t actively discriminate. No, I don’t. Like I said twice above, when the other charities are outside ringing bells, then I’ll help. Am I saying that I’m too lazy to support gay rights? Well, yeah, maybe, but it’s really about priorities. Helping those in need is more important to me than gay issues. That’s not to say that I don’t believe in freedom – I do. I won’t go seeking petitions for allowing gay marriage in Michigan, but if they’re standing in front of Meijer on my way in, I’ll sign. I guess I’m just an evil monster. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/66 "2011-12-05T04:55:09Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > No, I don’t. Like I said twice above, when the other charities are outside ringing bells, then I’ll help. Am I saying that I’m too lazy to support gay rights? Well, yeah, maybe, but it’s really about priorities. Helping those in need is more important to me than gay issues. That’s not to say that I don’t believe in freedom – I do. I won’t go seeking petitions for allowing gay marriage in Michigan, but if they’re standing in front of Meijer on my way in, I’ll sign. I guess I’m just an evil monster. :rolleyes: Yeah! And why haven’t you developed a cure for AIDS yet either? And also, prostate cancer kills millions, and yet, I don’t see you healing any prostates. Seriously, I’m a gay man. I am a huge supporter of gay rights. People choosing to donate to the SA does not upset me in any way. They do a lot of good, and they happen to be homophobic. If you spent your who life worrying about whether or not a single dollar of yours went into the hands of a homophobic person or organization, you’d be worried to death and you’d never be able to spend money anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/67 "2011-12-05T05:02:27Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Am I saying that I’m too lazy to support gay rights? Well, yeah, maybe, but it’s really about priorities. Helping those in need is more important to me than gay issues. > [@drewtwo99](#): > > Seriously, I’m a gay man. I am a huge supporter of gay rights. People choosing to donate to the SA does not upset me in any way. They do a lot of good, and they happen to be homophobic. If you spent your who life worrying about whether or not a single dollar of yours went into the hands of a homophobic person or organization, you’d be worried to death and you’d never be able to spend money anywhere. Partly inspired by the various offenderatti upthread, I just put $15 in a Salvation Army kettle at the supermarket, where my purchases were rung up by a very polite, very obviously gay cashier, and I didn’t even bother to publicly castigate him for his wonton, shameful lifestyle or his deviant desires. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/68 "2011-12-05T05:13:19Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > No, I don’t. Like I said twice above, when the other charities are outside ringing bells, then I’ll help. Am I saying that I’m too lazy to support gay rights? Well, yeah, maybe, but it’s really about priorities. Helping those in need is more important to me than gay issues. That’s not to say that I don’t believe in freedom – I do. I won’t go seeking petitions for allowing gay marriage in Michigan, but if they’re standing in front of Meijer on my way in, I’ll sign. I guess I’m just an evil monster. :rolleyes: **drewtwo99** makes a good point below your post. Still, I wish you’d think about what you just said. You’re not an evil monster, but laziness is no excuse for supporting discrimination. You could apply the same logic to a different group: “Well, the Salvation Army Soup Kitchen turns away blacks, but they really do a powerful lot of good for those hungry whites, and that’s important to me.” But as you say, maybe gay issues just aren’t that important. It’s not like we’re real people or anything. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/69 "2011-12-05T05:14:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Do they help gay animals? 😃 Only the circumcised ones. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/70 "2011-12-05T06:06:39Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Helping those in need is more important to me than gay issues. Well, helping straight people in need, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/71 "2011-12-05T06:14:38Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Partly inspired by the various offenderatti upthread, I just put $15 in a Salvation Army kettle at the supermarket, where my purchases were rung up by a very polite, very obviously gay cashier, and I didn’t even bother to publicly castigate him for his wonton, shameful lifestyle or his deviant desires. So, from this thread you learned that this organization both engages in political work to systematically deny LGBT people the rights straight, cisgender people take for granted, and you saw examples of it denying charity to people because they’re queer, including that couple that they separated by them. You donated to this group _specifically_ to stick it to those bad queers who have the nerve to get “offended” over being the targets of discrimination. And then you proceeded to demand credit for not having deliberately attacked someone because you assume he is gay. Sad to say, I guess this is probably the best possible outcome of homophobia but I’ll still sit here and hope three ghosts come by to teach you what this season is about, because _man_. [QUOTE=Dr. Drake] But as you say, maybe gay issues just aren’t that important. It’s not like we’re real people or anything. [/QUOTE] Of course LGBT people are real people. We just don’t matter enough for it to be important that this organization apparently has a spotting record of helping us when we’re in need. But it does great work to help needy straight, cisgender people. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/72 "2011-12-05T06:27:47Z")
The logic being used by some in this thread to defend giving money to what is demonstrably a homophobic, bigoted, and discriminatory organization is illuminating. “But I have to. They have those red kettles.” It is stupid easy to find charities to give to in the holiday season. Practically every grocery store or mall will have a box to donate food supplies or toys into, or will let you add $5 to your receipt to donate to a local food pantry. Hell, shove a few bucks into the Ronald McDonald House donation box that they have at every single McDonald’s drive-through window. _They_ help needy people while miraculously managing not to be discriminatory. Claiming that you have to donate to the SA because donation is super important to you but only if the means of donation is really easy and convenient is a load of crap. Just have the stones to come out and say, “I don’t give a shit about discrimination against gay people.” ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/73 "2011-12-05T06:27:48Z")
> [@Soylent\_Juicy](#): > > Ohhh. Thanks for clarifying. But please don’t let one possibly sketchy volunteer cloud your judgement of an entire organization Agreed. Instead, you should let your judgment be led by their rampant homophobia, hate, and bigotry. > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I am so goddamned sick and tired of being told by homophobes that I am simply “misunderstanding” their position. No, I understand their position perfectly damn well and that’s the problem. If they don’t want to be “misunderstood” then they can stop professing a bigoted and discriminatory position and they can stop trying to get bigoted and discriminatory legislation passed. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/74 "2011-12-05T09:59:16Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Am I saying that I’m too lazy to support gay rights? Well, yeah, maybe, but it’s really about priorities. Helping those in need is more important to me than gay issues. So, helping those in need is more important than gay issues? It would be nice if the stinking SA believed the same goddamed thing. Instead, they care more about gay issues than they do about helping those in need. There is no other way to interpret their taking the the people they were being paid to help in NYC hostage to fight for their homophobic agenda. If you want to support them anyways, that’s your choice. Just don’t go doing it and claim you give a flying fuck about freedom, civil rights, or common fucking decency. You’ve just proven you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/75 "2011-12-05T10:26:01Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > If you want to support them anyways, that’s your choice. Just don’t go doing it and claim you give a flying fuck about freedom, civil rights, or common fucking decency. You’ve just proven you don’t. Actually, no, I’ve not proven that. Your argument is faulty, and additionally you’re arguing against their freedom to do as they please. While I don’t agree with 100% of their agenda, I also favor their freedom to promote their agenda. But that’s a different argument. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/76 "2011-12-05T10:56:39Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Am I saying that I’m too lazy to support gay rights? No, that would be excessively complimentary. What you are, instead, is to lazy to not help discriminate against gays. Neutrality would be a step up for you. > [@](#): > > Actually, no, I’ve not proven that. Your argument is faulty, and additionally you’re arguing against their freedom to do as they please. Your mother’s argument is faulty! Seriously, you want to take five to explain why it’s faulty, or should we just take your word for it? > [@](#): > > While I don’t agree with 100% of their agenda, I also favor their freedom to promote their agenda. But that’s a different argument. So totally different, in fact, that it has nothing to do with anything that’s been said in this thread, by anyone. I think the formal name for this particular argument is the “Look! A bear!” fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/77 "2011-12-05T11:24:58Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Actually, no, I’ve not proven that. Your argument is faulty, and additionally you’re arguing against their freedom to do as they please. While I don’t agree with 100% of their agenda, I also favor their freedom to promote their agenda. But that’s a different argument. No, I’m arguing against actively _supporting_ them as they exercise their freedom to be fucktards. If I were arguing against their ability to promote their agenda I’d start talking about gag orders, or suppressing them a la the Mormons in the nineteenth century. They have exercised their freedoms to do as they wish, including holding the poor people they claim to help hostage, and so I exercise my freedom to act by refusing to support them, and telling others just what sort of hypocrisy they practice. They have their freedom to act as they wish. They also should reap the just rewards of the actions they have chosen. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/78 "2011-12-05T11:30:43Z")
They lost me as a supporter when they campaigned in NZ against decriminalising homosexuality. I am constantly amazed how many people dont know how fundamentalist they really are. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/79 "2011-12-05T14:00:36Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I didn’t even bother to publicly castigate him for his wonton, shameful lifestyle. I prefer an egg-drop shameful lifestyle, but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663/80 "2011-12-05T18:26:14Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > And also, prostate cancer kills millions, No it doesn’t. According to the [National Cancer Institute](http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/types/prostate), 33,720 men are expected to die of prostate cancer in 2011. So to kill “millions” it will take 59 years. (And that’s assuming no improvements in medical care & treatment for those 59 years.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-neverending-homophobia-of-the-salvation-army/604663.md?page=5)