# The Nevers \[open spoilers after first post\]
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc
**Created:** [April 13, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884 "2021-04-13T02:18:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/1 "2021-04-13T02:18:57Z")
So, Joss Whedon has a new show on HBO involving magic, mayhem, and late 1800s London. It has a lot of prominent actors, most or all of whom will be familiar if you watch BBC TV shows, and it has one hell of a special effects budget.
Episode 1 just ran, and I have thoughts… Spoilers after the break.
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### Author:  [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/2 "2021-04-13T02:29:42Z")
So let’s start with the positives. I love the look of the show, and there are two main characters so far, both of whom are great. The show does start with a bang, or actually several bangs, as our heroes work to rescue a young girl who is in the midst of being kidnapped. I liked those scenes a lot, even if they had to dive a little into steampunk with the motor car. Nick Frost has a good turn, and the bad guys are intriguing.
Well, that was about it for me for positives. For neutrals, let’s just admit that we’re going to have to ignore all the shit that came out about Joss Whedon, otherwise the female empowerment narrative that underpins the story is just going to feel like a joke. But he left the show, so I can live with that.
And then, the negatives. A lot of it is actually classic Whedon – too many characters introduced too quickly, too much abandonment of narrative for one-liners and good scenes, and a sprawling plot that needs to come together in the next couple of episodes. After that first good set piece, it’s a long time before things start to move again, there’s so much character intro & luxuriating in lovely London.
Also, and this is a little weirder, demographically this feels like it could be a YA show, but it does have plenty of sex and nudity (as HBO likes), so I’m not that sure who it’s aimed at. Young 20s as a main demographic I guess, but it seems like a strange choice.
I’ll give this at least two more episodes, but I would score of the first one about a 6 out of 10.
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### Author:  [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/3 "2021-04-13T11:03:05Z")
Funny you should mention “two more episodes” as that is the entirety of Whedon’s tenure on the show. Hope we find out what those hourglasses at the Big Bads’ table are all about.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/4 "2021-04-13T12:35:43Z")
Although he is evidently credited as director for only three episodes (the first plus two more as you note), everything I’ve read says he departed as showrunner, which means executive producer and head writer, after the first half of the twelve-episode season.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/5 "2021-04-13T13:04:54Z")
The fact that the benefactor for the refuge for super powered people is in a wheelchair is all the clue you need to predict all the tropes we’re going to see in this story. But, the acting, scenery, and FX are enough to keep me watching.
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### Author:  [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/6 "2021-04-13T13:50:21Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#):
>
> And then, the negatives. A lot of it is actually classic Whedon – too many characters introduced too quickly, too much abandonment of narrative for one-liners and good scenes, and a sprawling plot that needs to come together in the next couple of episodes. After that first good set piece, it’s a long time before things start to move again, there’s so much character intro & luxuriating in lovely London.
To be fair, it was the pilot and pilots are generally overstuffed.
The ending of the pilot reveal that the magical powers were randomly granted by a flying alien (?) ship was interesting. A good way for it to be an alternative history but most things being the same (as the fork was relatively soon before the beginning of the show).
The effects were great, but also made me wish that HBO dramas would finally embrace 4k or HDR.. at least on its HBOMax app.
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### Author:  [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/7 "2021-04-13T14:03:27Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#):
>
> The ending of the pilot reveal that the magical powers were randomly granted by a flying alien (?) ship was interesting. A good way for it to be an alternative history but most things being the same (as the fork was relatively soon before the beginning of the show).
Yes, apparently this is _Wild Cards: 1889_. \*
Interesting that everyone except Maladie seemed to immediately forget the alien ship and the floating spores/points of light as soon as they had passed. Apparently they’re going with the “mental illness gives you unique insight into the supernatural truths that no one else is aware of’” trope. There also seemed to me to be some implication that Mrs. True retained more awareness of what had actually happened then everyone else - maybe because she was dying when she was Touched? I suppose that’s going to be the mystery box element of the show.
\* _Wild Cards_ was a shared world anthology book series in the 1980s about an alternate history where aliens bombarded New York City with mutagenic material in the 1940s, resulting in a grim and gritty version of a classic comic book superhero world.
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### Author:  [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/8 "2021-04-13T14:10:12Z")
> [@gdave](#):
>
> _Wild Cards_ was a shared world anthology book series in the 1980s about an alternate history where aliens bombarded New York City with mutagenic material in the 1940s, resulting in a grim and gritty version of a classic comic book superhero world.
Edited by George R.R. Martin no less. It is still continuing as well.
> [@gdave](#):
>
> Interesting that everyone except Maladie seemed to immediately forget the alien ship and the floating spores/points of light as soon as they had passed. Apparently they’re going with the “mental illness gives you unique insight into the supernatural truths that no one else is aware of’” trope. There also seemed to me to be some implication that Mrs. True retained more awareness of what had actually happened then everyone else - maybe because she was dying when she was Touched? I suppose that’s going to be the mystery box element of the show.
I wonder if Maladie was the ONLY person who didn’t forget the alien ship. The word Touched seems to imply touched by God, but I wonder if they know they were literally touched by the material from this ship (while those who weren’t forget about it right afterwards).
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/9 "2021-04-13T14:32:32Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#):
>
> The word Touched seems to imply touched by God,
It can also mean demented, which, so far, seems to be Maladie’s only “superpower”. Although, wasn’t she already like that before the “event”?
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### Author:  [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/10 "2021-04-13T14:44:12Z")
I’m pretty sure the protagonists don’t see it that way 😉 .
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### Author:  [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/11 "2021-04-13T15:25:24Z")
Well, her eyes also turn orange during a fight, and that seems to give her strength. At least that’s my read on something pretty vague.
I did wonder if she was originally the wife of a peer (“M’Lady”) shoved into an asylum by a wicked peer who conspired with the psychoanalysts to keep her imprisoned. Maybe Lord Massen? I know we saw his daughter, I’m not sure about his wife.
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2021, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/12 "2021-04-14T12:01:39Z")
Maladie also seemed to recognise Miss True when she spoke the words “just let me have the girl”. They have a past, I think.
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### Author:  [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/13 "2021-04-14T15:51:54Z")
I know I’m not adding much to the discussion, but I really WANT to like this show. My wife was fading fast and starting reading the reviews of the first 5-6 episodes which were not at all positive.
Having said that I’ll give this a go and hope for the best. I love Laura Donnelly, who we both liked in Outlander.
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### Author:  [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2021, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/14 "2021-04-15T01:37:59Z")
Just watched the first episode. Parts were okay. Parts _really_ dragged. I’d call it “Zzzzzzz-Men” except that the terrigen mist scene means that I need to come up with an Inhumans joke instead.
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### Author:  [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2021, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/15 "2021-04-15T03:21:03Z")
I wanted to like this show because I thought the reviews were good, but I gave up after 20 mins. This just seemed like a YA teen focused series. Wisecracking attractive women beating up men twice their size, yawn, seen that way too many times.
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/16 "2021-04-15T03:29:16Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#):
>
> This just seemed like a YA teen focused series. Wisecracking attractive women beating up men twice their size, yawn, seen that way too many times.
Well, maybe don’t watch the new CW _Kung Fu_ series either. You might dislocate your jaw.
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### Author:  [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2021, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/17 "2021-04-15T03:50:55Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#):
>
> Well, maybe don’t watch the new CW _Kung Fu_ series either.
Going by the responses on my thread about the show, _nobody_ watched it.
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### Author:  [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/18 "2021-04-19T13:13:42Z")
Well that was interesting. Looks like True was also spending some quality time in a mental asylum, where she met Maladie. Also appears that true to her name (no pun intended), she can get people to reveal things about themselves. Helping out the inspector should help the orphanage.
I guess I shouldn’t be too surprised as well that the mad scientist is working for the orphanage benefactor. She always had the feel of playing both sides.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/19 "2021-04-19T13:26:50Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#):
>
> Also appears that true to her name (no pun intended), she can get people to reveal things about themselves.
I thought that was Desirée Blodgett‘s turn. That’s why True took her to see the inspector.
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### Author:  [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nevers-open-spoilers-after-first-post/939884/20 "2021-04-19T13:49:18Z")
Oh that’s fair… oh well, I was hoping True had a punny name.
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