# The New Coke fiasco, and the current standing between Coke and Pepsi **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** soda-softdrinks\ **Created:** [December 30, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935 "2021-12-30T19:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/41 "2022-01-01T17:46:20Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > In addition, The Coca-Cola Company mostly sticks to liquid refreshments, while PepsiCo has for years derived most of its revenues from [foods and snacks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_PepsiCo). It has more revenue and a higher market cap than Coke. I worked for Quaker Oats in the late 1990s; shortly after I left, they were bought by PepsiCo, as the culmination of a protracted bidding war between Coca-Cola and PepsiCo for the company. Coke and Pepsi specifically wanted Quaker in order to get Gatorade (which, at that point, was posting double-digit annual sales growth, and was essentially a license to print money). The conventional wisdom at the time was that PepsiCo would keep Gatorade, and quickly spin off Quaker’s food divisions (which were primarily breakfast cereals). But, as it turned out, they kept the Quaker food lines (and still have them today) – before buying Quaker, PepsiCo’s food portfolio was largely Frito-Lay, and PepsiCo felt that having some “better for you” food brands under their umbrella would improve their image (which was, up until then, largely as purveyors of junk food), and put them more “on trend” for offering healthier options. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Me](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mr.Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Me)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/42 "2022-01-01T18:18:52Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Why does this thread have a “music” tag? I expected at least a passing reference to Negativland’s [Dispepsi](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enXA4j7ICPU) album. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/43 "2022-01-01T21:32:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Pepsi really does taste better See, I think Pepsi tastes shitty. It’s a numbers game. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/44 "2022-01-02T13:35:30Z")
If I’m at a picnic and there’s a cooler filled with soft drinks on ice, I’ll grab a Dr Pepper or a Diet Dr Pepper. If there are only cola drinks, I’ll grab one at random. They all taste different, but to me a generic cola is just as good as a coke/pepsi. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/45 "2022-01-02T16:15:29Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > They all taste different, but to me a generic cola is just as good as a coke/pepsi. I’m always amused when people who prefer Coke often feel they need to say they can tell the difference as if the rest of us can’t. It’s not that the rest of us can’t; it’s that most of us don”t really care. Even someone who prefers Pepsi will drink a lot of Coke simply because Pepsi is usually not available where they dine. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/46 "2022-01-02T16:32:52Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Even someone who prefers Pepsi will drink a lot of Coke simply because Pepsi is usually not available where they dine. Right. I’ve never seen somebody respond to a waitron asking “We don’t have Coke. Is Pepsi OK?” by shouting “Hell, NO!” and walking out of the restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/47 "2022-01-02T16:49:52Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Right. I’ve never seen somebody respond to a waitron asking “We don’t have Coke. Is Pepsi OK?” by shouting “Hell, NO!” and walking out of the restaurant. I don’t know if this is still the case, but twenty years ago in Atlanta there were definitely people who would ask for water if the only cola was Pepsi. But then in the office cafeteria in Atlanta about a quarter of the breakfast orders included a coke rather than coffee or tea. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/48 "2022-01-02T17:45:51Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > > [@silenus](#): > > > > Right. I’ve never seen somebody respond to a waitron asking “We don’t have Coke. Is Pepsi OK?” by shouting “Hell, NO!” and walking out of the restaurant. > > I don’t know if this is still the case, but twenty years ago in Atlanta there were definitely people who would ask for water if the only cola was Pepsi. It’s certainly not a stretch to think that someone might have other beverages between Coke and Pepsi on their personal list of preference rankings. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/49 "2022-01-02T18:02:55Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I’m always amused when people who prefer Coke often feel they need to say they can tell the difference as if the rest of us can’t. It’s not that the rest of us can’t; it’s that most of us don”t really care. Even someone who prefers Pepsi will drink a lot of Coke simply because Pepsi is usually not available where they dine. I usually add that due to my experience with discussions of the difference between regular sodas and diet sodas. I have had many people tell me with a straight face that they can’t distinguish between Coke and Diet Coke. The only conclusion I can draw is that those people have taste buds that lack some kind of receptor. To me the taste between the two is immediately obvious. The difference between Coke and Pepsi isn’t quit as obvious, but is still noticeable. It’s somewhat of an exaggeration, but this is the analogy I use. If Coke = strawberry cake, then Pepsi = chocolate cake, and Diet Coke = mushy steamed broccoli. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/50 "2022-01-02T18:29:19Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Right. I’ve never seen somebody respond to a waitron asking “We don’t have Coke. Is Pepsi OK?” by shouting “Hell, NO!” and walking out of the restaurant. I don’t storm out, of course, but if I order a Coke and they only have Pepsi, I just won’t have a cola. I mean, I shouldn’t be drinking sugary soft drinks anyway, so if they don’t have the one I like, it’s that much easier to be smart and just not get one at all. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyEcks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnnyecks/32/18197_2.png) [@JohnnyEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyEcks)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/51 "2022-01-02T20:15:59Z")
I’ve heard two things about the New Coke debacle that I’m still not sure of the truth of. First, I’ve heard that a standard clause of Coke’s exclusive contract with big vendors allowed them to renegotiate if coke ever failed to be the best selling cola- a nice sounding but meaningless feature when coke was unchallenged. When Coke’s market research showed that the Pepsi challenge was honest and Pepsi did win blind taste tests, they feared a cascading exodus, and panicked. Second, Malcom Gladwell claims that while New Coke did beat Pepsi in blind taste tests, the tests were flawed because the test subjects were only given a single small glass. Supposedly when New Coke was drunk in larger quantities, the increased sweetness became cloying and unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/52 "2022-01-02T20:22:54Z")
> [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > First, I’ve heard that a standard clause of Coke’s exclusive contract with big vendors What do you mean by “vendors”? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/53 "2022-01-02T20:26:17Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I don’t know if this is still the case, but twenty years ago in Atlanta there were definitely people who would ask for water if the only cola was Pepsi. I ask for a Dr. Pepper. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyEcks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnnyecks/32/18197_2.png) [@JohnnyEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyEcks)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/54 "2022-01-02T21:08:55Z")
Big resellers- restaurant chains, movie theaters, stadiums and such. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/55 "2022-01-02T22:15:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I tried looking that up, and different sources give wildly different numbers for the market share of each, but all seem to agree that Coke’s share is about twice as large as Pepsi’s. Not sure if its relevant, but for some beverage brands owned by pepsi and coke, the pepsi brand has more market share. An example is gatorade (owned by pepsi) is bigger than powerade (owned by coke). Mountain Dew (pepsi) outsells mello yello (coke) Tropicana (pepsi) beats minute maid (coke) There are probably other examples. Pepsi may have lost the main cola battle but they’re winning various sub brand battles. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@salinqmind1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind1)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/56 "2022-01-02T22:54:08Z")
Pepsi is sweet, flat, and cheap. It’s best drunk in the middle of the night in August, standing in front of a fan in the kitchenette of your double-wide, washing down a rolled up slice of baloney in mustard…I have a friend with bonafide white trashy roots who will order Pepsi, in a restaurant, gulp down a huge glass, and immediately order another one. 🤢 to each their own. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/57 "2022-01-02T23:06:05Z")
> [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > First, I’ve heard that a standard clause of Coke’s exclusive contract with big vendors allowed them to renegotiate if coke ever failed to be the best selling cola- a nice sounding but meaningless feature when coke was unchallenged. I don’t know about the contracts, but I do recall that it was Very Important to have the number one distinction for your beverage only at the time. That’s why Coke, instead of just adding New Coke to their line to offer customers an additional choice, abandoned the old formula so that “Coke” could be number one. In other words, it wouldn’t be enough if the sales of Classic Coke and New Coke combined blew Pepsi out of the water. If Pepsi beat Classic and New Coke individually then it could claim number one status which would have been disastrous for, well, reasons… I guess it was just a different time in which you didn’t have hundreds of choices at a convenience store, you had about ten. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/58 "2022-01-02T23:13:02Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I ask for a Dr. Pepper. In my experience, restaurants are even less likely to have Dr. Pepper than either Coke _or_ Pepsi. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/59 "2022-01-02T23:14:29Z")
Yeah, Pibb seems to be available in more places than Dr. Pepper. ---
**Author:** ![Didi44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Didi44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Didi44)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935/60 "2022-01-02T23:17:03Z")
Being pedantic. Coca-Cola is the name of the Coca-Cola Bottling Company. Coke is a product of the Coca-Cola Bottling Company. In some areas, Coke is synonymous with soda or pop. So someone could order a _Coke_ and be asked “What kind?” of soda. In the past, I’ve ordered a Coke and without being asked if Pepsi or some other cola was okay, been surprised with an non Coca-Cola beverage. UGH! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-coke-fiasco-and-the-current-standing-between-coke-and-pepsi/956935.md?page=4)