# The "new" European anti-Semitism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2004, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939 "2004-01-11T05:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/21 "2004-01-11T12:22:07Z")
From **adaher** ’s link: > [@](#): > > The recent increase in anti-Semitic attacks has unfolded in the wake of the Middle East crisis. They follow a general rise in racist and xenophobic violence in Western Europe, particularly against Arabs and certain ethnic and religious minorities, which spiked sharply in the aftermath of the 11 September attacks in the United States. > > In France, hostility toward Jews has led to a particularly serious wave of attacks. The French police recorded 395 anti-Semitic incidents between 29 March and 17 April, **63 percent of which involved anti-Semitic graffiti.** Doesn’t sound like Jews are being singled out, more like a general escalation in tensions. And if the majority of a “serious wave of attacks” consists of graffiti, it really does sound like wolf crying. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/22 "2004-01-11T12:40:49Z")
Cites: [EU Body Shelves Report on Anti-Semitism](http://www.defenddemocracy.org/research_topics/research_topics_show.htm?doc_id=199410&attrib_id=7587) (Know nothing of the site beyond what’s on this page.) (From same site: [EU suspends anti-Semitism seminar](http://www.defenddemocracy.org/research_topics/research_topics_show.htm?doc_id=202698&attrib_id=7587) [Europe’s Moral Treachery Over Anti-Semitism](http://www.defenddemocracy.org/research_topics/research_topics_show.htm?doc_id=202732&attrib_id=7587) ) Also Financial Times: [EU racism group shelves anti-Semitism study By Bertrand Benoit in Berlin](http://search.ft.com/search/article.html?id=031122001339&query=muslims&vsc_appId=totalSearch&state=Form) Requires registration (15-days free) “The European Union’s racism watchdog has shelved a report on anti-Semitism in Europe because the study concluded Muslims and pro-Palestinian groups were behind many of the incidents in the period covered.“ - Rune ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/23 "2004-01-11T12:44:13Z")
**Doesn’t sound like Jews are being singled out, more like a general escalation in tensions. And if the majority of a “serious wave of attacks” consists of graffiti, it really does sound like wolf crying.** True, but actual attacks are also up, and my general point is that anti-Semetism is rearing its ugly head in Europe for the 1553rd time. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/24 "2004-01-11T12:58:18Z")
The irony, of course, is that it’s Sharon who’s keen to blur the line between opposition to the policies of his administration and ‘Anti-Semitism’ - and it’s these knucklehead with their spray cans who believe him! It’s like tea-time with Alice and the Mad Hatter. ---
**Author:** ![mipsman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mipsman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipsman)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/25 "2004-01-11T14:02:30Z")
Could the reason be that Israel does not buy politicians in Europe with the same enthusiam that they buy them in the US? ---
**Author:** ![sirtonyh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@sirtonyh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sirtonyh)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/26 "2004-01-11T15:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by labmonkey \* > \*\*From NPR, a recent EU poll found that nearly 60% of Europeans percieve Israel as the greatest threat to world peace and stability. I would most certainly have guessed the US, Korea, or China. So how real is the “new” European anti-Semitism? > \*\* I’m a little confused by the structure of this question. Are you suggesting the the perception of Israel as the greatest threat to world peace is anti-semetic? If you are just asking how real the “new” European anti-semetism is then I don’t understand the logic in referring to this poll but will try to answer anyway. I don’t really see or hear about a new type of anti-semetism or even a noticable increase. There have always been anti-semites in Europe, just as everywhere else in the world, but I don’t really see or hear of them gaining ground. I think a lot of what comes out in that poll is that many Europeans can understand the point of view of the Palestinians and see Israel as equally to blame for the lack of progress on peace. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/27 "2004-01-11T15:50:57Z")
As I recall the poll actually asked people to list nations they felt were a threat to world peace, not in any particular ranking. A guy who puts Israel as 20th on his list gets the same weighting as a guy who puts it first. So there was no result showing Israel was seen as the biggest threat, just that they were cited the most consistently. No doubt due to the fact that aside from anti-semites and radicals, quite a few people see Israel as a destabilizing force in some capacity. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/28 "2004-01-11T16:07:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DSeid \* > The “new” antisemitism isn’t so new. It is just recycled. The Old European crap (eg “The Protocols” and other hateful bile) has just been passed into Arab hands and back to Europe via poor Arab immigrants. Note that first of all those “Arab immigrants” aren’t all “poor” and those who eventually participate in a demonstration come from different levels of society. Next: Those who participate in Pro-Palestinian demonstrations or other actions do this because of their frustration and anger with Israeli policies and because and in addition because of the same sentiments towards the long term hypocrisy of the USA regarding the Israeli policies whiwh didn’t became any better with the US invasion of Iraq. And those demonstrations aren’t only populated by “Arabs” or “ME immigrants”. Lots of people in EU countries share these sentiments and lots of them participate in such demonstrations. All of this has very little to do with direct “anti semitism”. But Zionists have a long record in abusing the term. Their "statements make me always reflect on the victims of the Holocaust and how they must turn themselves in their graves whenever their suffering is so scandalously abused by Zionists. Zionists are extremely good in playing the victim while without any shame using Nazi tactics to oppress and murder themselves. I don’t see any “uprising” of “anti semitism” at all. I see an uprising of anti Israel/anti US sentiments that isn’t limited to “Arabs” and is gaining more and more general support. Both in the EU and outside. Of course this situation adds to the anti-Jew sentiment of some people who were already Jew haters. But to lump such tiny minority in societies together wit all those who protest against Israel is a cheap and easy policy that serves the goals of Sharon and which he of course tries to exploit. He can do that rather easily with the US. But I’m afraid Europe is a bit too close on the issue to buy this cheap propaganda. > [@](#): > > some is condesencion by intellectuals who inaccurately percieve the Arab world as some sort of noble savages to be protected from Western colonialism as personified by Israel, and some is arguably well deserved. Sorry? Where do you get this idea? I never heard anyone discussing “the noble Arab savages”… in need to be “protected from Western colonialism” and I never heard this being reported as “personified by Israel”. Can you try to be even a bit more insulting to both my roots and my intellect? Thank you. > [@](#): > > But Europe is respectful of traditions, and the tradition of antisemitism has a long history there; it would be very naive to think it ever went away just because it wasn’t fashionable to express it for a while. That doesn’t mean that every single protest against Israel is a demonstration of anti semitism. It has nothing to do with anti semitism. It has to do with Israel and how it can continue to operate under the hypocritical US umbrella. As I said above: Of course this situation has its influence on the little groups of Jew haters that have always existed. Yet it doesn’t mean that those group by some miracle show a spectacular growt. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/29 "2004-01-11T16:08:21Z")
Ok, clarification, then, but I think it’s all in OP: 1)I was asking if the charges of “new” anti-semitism which were[being raised by groups like the ADL](http://www.adl.org/presrele/Islme_62/4040_62.asp) are real or baseless. 2)If in fact true, is there convincing evidence to back this up, there seems to be _some_, but watchdog organizations do tend to exagerate. However, why was a study commisioned then not released but leaked?(See the NPR report) 3)I can’t find a good link to the damned poll, but the NPR disscussion is on their webpage, (Realplayer or Mediaplayer)[here.](http://www.adl.org/presrele/Islme_62/4040_62.asp) 4)Could anti-Israeli sentiment by so fervent among the general population Europe that it becomes a place for Jew-baiters to feel comfortable again. **London Calling** I assume you find it baseless(point#1), I see you also managed to weasel in a jab at King George(you are not hurting my feelings, trust me ) on topic please 🙂 Apparently Chirac thought European anti-Semitism in France real enough;[emergency cabinet meeting](http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/transcripts/2003/nov/031117.spicer.html). Or was this merely a dog and pony show for Sharon’s benefit? This hardly seems correct, since it is common knowledge that only the US is at Israels beck and call, whilst the brave and stalwhart Europeans will stand up to the Jewish bullies. One last thing, I’ve seen it stated here that all the events of violence have been tied to Muslim youth, but the perpetrators obvioulsly feel comfortable enough acting out. It could be argued that the pro-palestinian/anti-Israel slant of the far lefties in postitions of power and influence make this behavior more acceptable, or at least less distasteful to the average European. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/30 "2004-01-11T16:20:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by labmonkey \* > 4)Could anti-Israeli sentiment by so fervent among the general population Europe that it becomes a place for Jew-baiters to feel comfortable again. Not in my view which is based in my experience. > [@](#): > > One last thing, I’ve seen it stated here that all the events of violence have been tied to Muslim youth, but the perpetrators obvioulsly feel comfortable enough acting out. It could be argued that the pro-palestinian/anti-Israel slant of the far lefties in postitions of power and influence make this behavior more acceptable, or at least less distasteful to the average European. I don’t think it is correct to relate “very violence” to young Muslims only. But apart from this, and to answer you question: No, this behaviour is not “more acceptable” at all and not “less distastefull” at all. Not to the average EU’er and not to the average Muslim/EU’er. People in the EU tend to reason on a normal level. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/31 "2004-01-11T16:48:07Z")
i believe israel is the greatest threat to stability but i dont completely blame Israel for it. Theres a difference between agknowledging that one country is a pivot for alot of instability and laying all blame on that country and automatically siding with their enemies. ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/32 "2004-01-11T17:35:45Z")
**Aldebaran,** a cogent and reasoned response to my points, _golf clap_. I have never been to the EU so I wouldn’t pretend to know the average European’s stance on the subject, so for me at least, anecdotal evidence is somewhat helpful. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/33 "2004-01-11T17:36:16Z")
Alde, You misunderstand or misinterpret. Did I say all? Nope, no how no way. But there are a fair number of poor Arab immigrants in Europe, who are subjected to fair amount of discrimination, and whose members include those who are the instigators of much of what has been labelled as “the new antisemitism” with antisemitic bile that had originated in Europe. Did I insult your roots or intellect? Not in this thread anyway. I’ll save insulting your intellect for one of the many Pit threads devoted to that purpose! 😉 No. And I think you know from other threads that I respect your roots. But Israel has been portrayed the personification of Western colonialism by segments of Western “intellectual” society. And many of those same people will not deign to look at, or critique, oppression by Arabs upon Arabs, and discount Arab violence because (IMHO) they harbor racist perceptions of the Arab world that play into Rosseau’s naive but still influential view of the “noble savage”. I do not share those views. Violence and oppression are not inherently Arab nor Islamic, they are the result of power structures attempting to maintain themselves and human flaws shared by us all. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/34 "2004-01-11T19:29:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DSeid \* > You misunderstand or misinterpret. Probably the first leads to the second 🙂 > [@](#): > > But there are a fair number of poor Arab immigrants in Europe, who are subjected to fair amount of discrimination, and whose members include those who are the instigators of much of what has been labelled as “the new antisemitism” with antisemitic bile that had originated in Europe. Which is not a correct interpretation, but to explain it I would need an other thread. > [@](#): > > Did I insult your roots or intellect? Not in this thread anyway. I’ll save insulting your intellect for one of the many Pit threads devoted to that purpose! 😉 These pit things are amusing, no? I almost come to feel sorry about it that these members abandoned that hobby. > [@](#): > > And I think you know from other threads that I respect your roots. Yes… I did make my reply in small font > [@](#): > > But Israel has been portrayed the personification of Western colonialism by segments of Western “intellectual” society. And many of those same people will not deign to look at, or critique, oppression by Arabs upon Arabs, and discount Arab violence because (IMHO) they harbor racist perceptions of the Arab world that play into Rosseau’s naive but still influential view of the “noble savage” Well, consider underscribed who dwells on a rather unavoidable base among the whole scala of what can be refered to as “intellectuals” - be it at home or in Belgium or elswhere - as not informed about these “intellectuals” you refer to. (Could be because I can’t bring myself to pay attention to that type of sleep provoking nonsense which tends to make me one extremely lazy guy). What I can understand in such people’s reasoning is their naivity about the “noble savage”. Westerners still have no clue about the rules in our society and tend to romanticize what they don’t understand. About Israel the last word is not said, but I wouldn’t compare the behaviour (of the governments) there with “Western colonisation”. You must be very ignorant about that issue and about the whole question Palestine/Israel both, in order to be able to do that. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/35 "2004-01-11T20:01:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I Love Me, Vol. I \* > \*\*I am so sick and tired of people (not necessarily the OP) who automatically consider anti-israel policy the same thing as anti-semitism. that is so beat-- give it up please. \*\* I do not disagree, but why oh why is so much attention paid to the plight of Palistinians at the hands of Israelis when there are other ethnic groups and peoples who have been and are being persecuted and even brutalized in many other regimes to a much greater extent throughout the world ? What makes Israel so special? A special concern for Palistinians ? ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/36 "2004-01-11T21:51:05Z")
A couple of points. There was a reasonable (but kind of biased) cover article about “The New Anti-Semitism” by Mort Zuckerman in US News from November. It is not freely availible online, but some of his other essays are. Here is one in a similar vein: [http://www.jewishworldreview.com/mort/zuckerman091101.asp](http://www.jewishworldreview.com/mort/zuckerman091101.asp) His criticism, which I think is reasonable, is that the UN, the European Left and the European press focuses on Israel’s missteps more than on any others. That the EU, the Arab World, and the UN, go together in vilifying Israel more than it deserves in comparison to other nations of this world. This he equates with anti-Semitism. I don’t know if I agree that this is all of it. Israel is a Western Democracy of an EU-style, and I think there is some transferance here: the EU nations want Israel to behave like an ideal Western Democracy. Needless to say, when EU countries have been placed in similar situations, they have handled it in a similar fasion to Israel. But criticizing Israel simply for being Israel can only, at heart, be anti-Semitic. Martin Luther King said as much 40 years ago; nothing has changed since then. There are numerous examples of this: the UN Durban Conference on Racism and other actions by the Libya-headed UN Human Rights Commission, Israel barred from sitting on most major committees in the UN, the Guardian (UK) published an editorial saying that “Israel has no right to exist”, the French Ambassador to Britain calling Israel a “shitty little country” that threatens world peace, ad nauseum. Even if you dispute a few of these, there are hundreds of others that can be listed. The gross picture which emerges is of a systematic overreactive bias against Israel. I don’t like Sharon. I don’t like his policies (except that he is unilaterally withdrawing from the territories, an action which I think should have been taken 3 years ago at least). I don’t think that military actions in the territories has accomplished as much as it has damaged. But having a poor leader is no excuse to libel the state, to violently target its civilians, or to publicly question the right of the state to exist. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/37 "2004-01-11T22:57:36Z")
Cites: [San Francisco Chronicle Examines European Anti-Semitism](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=37&x_article=603). [James Goldsborough Blames Israel for Anti-Semitism](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=37&x_article=602). [Compared to other nations, and the UN itself, Israel has been restrained](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=2&x_article=189) [EU pressed on anti-Semitism study](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3240482.stm) [The Controversial Anti-Semitism Report](http://www.crif.org/index.php?menu=5&dossier=33&PHPSESSID=355dd37ce0c02983e2cc4670bf79da8a) ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2004, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/38 "2004-01-12T01:11:58Z")
Like many Europeans I’m getting pretty tired of being called an anti-semite for not liking Israel’s (read Sharon’s) behaviour. I’m afraid that I don’t have a cite at the moment but I seem to remember a french doper saying that almost all the “anti-semitic” crimes in France were in fact committed by young arab immigrants. The brackets are because I believe Arabs are semites too, no? Many Israelis, as soon as the results of this pretty dubious poll came out, cried “Anti-Semitism” and pointed and accusatory finger at us, which to me is about as logical as Charles Taylot blaming the KKK for his predicament. Everyone I know is on the same side, as far as I know, and we don’t hate Semites, Jews or Israelis. We just don’t approve of her methods these days. I could say more, but **Aldebaran** has said it all better than I can. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2004, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/39 "2004-01-12T12:17:09Z")
**Could the reason be that Israel does not buy politicians in Europe with the same enthusiam that they buy them in the US?** This is the kind of slur that crosses the line. ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2004, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939/40 "2004-01-12T12:17:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UselessGit \* > \*\*Like many Europeans I’m getting pretty tired of being called an anti-semite for not liking Israel’s (read Sharon’s) behaviour. I’m afraid that I don’t have a cite at the moment but I seem to remember a french doper saying that almost all the “anti-semitic” crimes in France were in fact committed by young arab immigrants. \*\* This might be the thread you are remembering [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220936](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220936) I thought this was an interesting item: [French Jews reject Cannes boycott](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1988124.stm) That and similar items are inclining me to the view that the supposed new wave of anti-semitism by the French in particular is largely concocted from American histrionics and anti-European hate-mongering. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-european-anti-semitism/223939.md?page=3)