# The New French Scooter-Car; Practical in any US Cities? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 12, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432 "2020-09-12T15:21:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/1 "2020-09-12T15:21:35Z")
This weird contraption seems perfect for Paris. A miniature electric cycle with a metal shell that parks easily and can go at considerable speeds for significant distances. Any market for this in the US? Or too underpowered? > **[Ami, the tiny cube on wheels that French 14-year-olds can drive](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/11/ami-the-tiny-cube-on-wheels-that-french-14-year-olds-can-drive)** > > Citroën’s ‘urban mobility object’ is classed as a light quadricyle and can be driven without a full licence ---
**Author:** ![Acierocolotl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acierocolotl/32/6241_2.png) [@Acierocolotl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acierocolotl)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/2 "2020-09-12T15:35:04Z")
I like to follow car news in general and this one totally slipped under my radar. So let me thank you for that, first off. In America, some communities are “carts only”, and I imagine this would do well. In this Canadian city I live in, I could see myself sticking to the urban core and doing quite well with it. The acceleration seems to be pretty good, so it’d get up to speed quickly and in the urban core, can match the real top speed of traffic without difficulty. I’m just not sure how comfortable the interior would be in the winter, or how well the battery system would hold up in the cold. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/3 "2020-09-12T15:50:16Z")
I suspect that it couldn’t be driven on public roads in the US, because it wouldn’t pass stringent crash safety standards. Safety standards for motorcycles, scooters, and mopeds are lower, but I’m not aware of any US state that would consider a four-wheeled vehicle to fit under those classifications. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/4 "2020-09-12T16:01:05Z")
The speed is very low, too, about 28mph. It would be impractical and potentially dangerous on surface streets where the speeds can hit 35-45mph. Also, one of the doors, it looks like it’s the passenger door on the left side of the car, opens backwards. That would have to be reversed in the U. S. so it’s not the driver’s door which opens backwards (the so-called “suicide door”). ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/5 "2020-09-12T16:55:04Z")
Not necessarily [a new idea](https://www.thedrive.com/tech/19658/neighborhood-electric-vehicles-a-different-kind-of-electric-car). > Because different states were creating conflicting regulations to govern them, in 1998 the U.S. Department of Transportation established [a special federal classification](https://one.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/lsv/lsv.html) for low-speed vehicles that are legal for road use. These vehicles are restricted to a top speed of 25 mph, a maximum weight of 3,000 pounds, and may not be driven on roads with a speed limit greater than 30 to 45 mph, depending on individual state laws. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/6 "2020-09-12T18:31:40Z")
Why would they have to be reversed in the US? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/7 "2020-09-12T18:47:31Z")
There is the concept of [Neighborhood Electric Vehicle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicle), NEV, that would fit. Here in Arizona, an NEV is described as electric (duh) with four wheels on the ground and a maximum speed of 25-mph. They can be driven only where the speed limit is 35 mph or less, but you can cross a faster road. There was a law passed a few years back allowing _golf carts_ but they have to be driven on the shoulder. There are probably other restrictions I am unaware of. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/8 "2020-09-12T18:48:45Z")
These would be great for San Francisco where the weather rarely gets below 40, and ice/snow are unheard of. Getting above 30 mph is not often a consideration, and being able to park in tiny spots is very useful. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/9 "2020-09-12T19:37:39Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Why would they have to be reversed in the US? It looks like they drive on the left in France, too. Still it is not the greatest design to have the driver’s door open _backwards_ into traffic where a car passing on your left side could hit the door and pin your body against the door frame. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/10 "2020-09-12T19:41:19Z")
> [@PoppaSan](#): > > Not necessarily [a new idea](https://www.thedrive.com/tech/19658/neighborhood-electric-vehicles-a-different-kind-of-electric-car). > > > Because different states were creating conflicting regulations to govern them, in 1998 the U.S. Department of Transportation established [a special federal classification](https://one.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/lsv/lsv.html) for low-speed vehicles that are legal for road use. These vehicles are restricted to a top speed of 25 mph, a maximum weight of 3,000 pounds, and may not be driven on roads with a speed limit greater than 30 to 45 mph, depending on individual state laws. So, that eliminates my speed objection, since their speed is legally restricted. I’d find it frustrating driving behind a vehicle going 20 miles an hour slower than me, though ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/11 "2020-09-12T19:46:17Z")
It sounds ideal for retirement villages. Probably safer than a car for that cohort. But I feel it could be impractical for snowy Montreal or even rainy Vancouver. I don’t especially favour lowering the driving age or encouraging alternatives unless in a designated area with few cars. Maybe some progressive southern cities - Austin or SF would encourage these. Hills could be a problem. Out of curiosity, since I have driven a golf cart but know little about them - how much do they cost? How fast can they go? Can they climb hills or conquer poor weather? ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/12 "2020-09-12T22:01:03Z")
No, France doesn’t drive on the left. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/13 "2020-09-13T07:10:22Z")
> [@saje](#): > > No, France doesn’t drive on the left. I meant to say they drive on the right with the steering wheel on the left side. Brain fart. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/14 "2020-09-13T13:54:38Z")
Anyone know golf cart specs? (Max speed, cost, range) ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/15 "2020-09-13T18:20:36Z")
Just to clarify (since it’s not obvious from the initial post), _voitures sans permis_ are not a new idea in France. I think I first heard about them in an article on the BBC web site like this one: > **[The little car you can drive in France without a licence](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35210572)** > > The top speed is 28mph and it's only tiny but the voiture sans permis - often held together with wire and gaffer tape - is a key feature of French village life. Bonus: if you get your license taken away due to drunk driving or extreme decrepitude, you can still drive! ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/16 "2020-09-13T18:55:55Z")
Well, sure… with one of these _voitures,_ you can drive drunk, hit someone, and the pedestrian wins. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/17 "2020-09-14T01:47:22Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > So, that eliminates my speed objection, since their speed is legally restricted. I’d find it frustrating driving behind a vehicle going 20 miles an hour slower than me, though The French like Jerry Lewis. What more can I say? ---
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/18 "2020-09-14T02:06:29Z")
I had read about a couple of similar vehicles being worked up here in the U.S. I even put in a small ‘down payment’ on one of them. The Elio, which has been ‘coming out next year’ for a few years now, was supposed to be made in Shreveport, Louisiana. Can the term ‘vaporware’ be used on a car? [Elio Motors](https://www.eliomotors.com/) This one I heard about a few years ago 'cause Nathan Fillion had gotten to test-drive it, along with his _Castle_ co-star, Jon Huertas, and talked it up on his Twitbook or something. Another one that seems to be ‘jam tomorrow, but not today.’ [Arcimoto](https://www.arcimoto.com/) Both look like they’d be fun as a second or third vehicle, but not too practical as a sole vehicle, even for single persons. Too bad they’re not likely to materialize. 🥺 ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-french-scooter-car-practical-in-any-us-cities/920432/19 "2020-09-14T03:38:12Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > I suspect that it couldn’t be driven on public roads in the US, because it wouldn’t pass stringent crash safety standards. It’d probably vary by state. Here the similar [GEM](https://gem.polaris.com/en-us/vehicles/) is legal on streets that have a speed limit of no more than 35mph. Of course, the two times I’ve ever seen people drive them were both on streets that have a higher speed limit…