# The new Gillette ad **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 16, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873 "2019-01-16T16:05:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/81 "2019-01-17T11:25:45Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > If it was saying we all should be good role models, then it would be gender neutral. I did not see a gender neutral advertisement, I saw an ad focused on men exclusively. I am sure I saw the same ad as you, I just have a different reaction to it. Maybe I’m a shitty person, but I feel how I feel for whatever reason. “We” meaning “we men”, since it’s an ad about men by a company marketing a product for men to men. Toxic masculinity is a thing than men may display – it’s right there in the name. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/82 "2019-01-17T11:36:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Right. Because there are so many women who are managers who squelch other women like the guy in the ad. > > In my 38 years in industry you know how many of these I’ve seen? None. > I’m afraid we men have to own this one. It’s a real thing and I’ve really seen it. It’s called [Queen Bee Syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_bee_syndrome). It has fuck-all to do with this ad, though. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/83 "2019-01-17T12:18:24Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > There’s also no virtue, since they’d say exactly the opposite if they thought that would make them more money. We’ll set aside the question of whether any of these socially conscious money grabs ever made the world an even microscopically better place. The Dove campaigns do, as have other conscious attempts to pick models which don’t look like models. Those women in the Dove campaigns don’t just have sizes in positive numbers: they have cellulite and hair which hasn’t been frozen in place! And yes, women do love the ads, and because we love the ads we do prefer to try their products over similar ones whose ads still tell us we need to be size minus-something, milk-skinned, and have hair that looks like it’s been CGId rather than growing where your mother placed it. Now if we could get ads for pads to stop trying to make periods sound like kindergarten, that would be really nice. Cos really, if you have your period in kindergarten and you’re not the teacher, something is real fucked up. > [@aceplace57](#): > > It seems aimed at a male culture that largely disappeared decades ago If you truly believe that, I’ve got some beachfront property you may be interested in. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/84 "2019-01-17T14:31:12Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > This is similar to the Dove ads pushing acceptance of women of all body shapes, while selling soap. There’s no harm in doing good in the name of profit. The Dove ad was meant to present the idea that ordinary women are also appealing, not just models. This advert assumes the accuracy of offensive stereotypes and hectors men on those grounds. These seem to be polar opposites. Imagine the advert was portraying black people robbing, dealing drugs, stealing cars, you know, “toxic blackness” stuff, and then telling the black people to knock off the old excuses and asking if this is really the best black people can do. Would your interpretation be that it’s about some black people, and is really a positive message? Or would you recognise that for what it is, and what this is, which is an intentional attack on a demographic group? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/85 "2019-01-17T14:44:31Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Because the problem of toxic masculinity is a problem that is the exclusive domain of men. Is it? I was bullied mercilessly by my brother when I was growing up, and it was our mother who handwaved it away as if it didn’t matter. I’ve had women tell me what men are like and how we think. I don’t know the gender of all the posters in this thread, but I suspect there are men saying they feel offended by their portrayal in this ad and women explaining to them why they’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/86 "2019-01-17T14:47:31Z")
I saw a great tweet from some woman about this, paraphrased: As a woman, I can’t imagine how it would feel to see an ad that implies I could improve. (For the sarcasm deficient, many, many commercials geared toward women exhort them to improve themselves) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/87 "2019-01-17T14:50:34Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Is it? I was bullied mercilessly by my brother when I was growing up, and it was our mother who handwaved it away as if it didn’t matter. I’ve had women tell me what men are like and how we think. I don’t know the gender of all the posters in this thread, but I suspect there are men saying they feel offended by their portrayal in this ad and women explaining to them why they’re wrong. Your brother was displaying toxic masculinity and your mother was handwaving it away with “boys will be boys”. She wasn’t displaying toxic masculinity. Jeez. The commercial has two messages – stop being an asshole and stop ignoring asshole behavior. This isn’t that hard. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/88 "2019-01-17T14:53:18Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Your brother was displaying toxic masculinity and your mother was handwaving it away with “boys will be boys”. She wasn’t displaying toxic masculinity. Jeez. > > The commercial has two messages – stop being an asshole and stop ignoring asshole behavior. This isn’t that hard. No, the commercial has one message “If you buy our products, you are a good person.” ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/89 "2019-01-17T14:54:12Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Your brother was displaying toxic masculinity and your mother was handwaving it away with “boys will be boys”. She wasn’t displaying toxic masculinity. Jeez. She wasn’t? That exact line is used in the commercial as the kind of thing that we should stop doing. If ignoring bullying and saying “boys will be boys” isn’t toxic masculinity, what is? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/90 "2019-01-17T14:59:51Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > No, the commercial has one message “If you buy our products, you are a good person.” I disagree, and I think it’s odd that you say that no ad can have a positive message. Is it your position that no ad can have a negative message as well? Very strange. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > She wasn’t? That exact line is used in the commercial as the kind of thing that we should stop doing. If ignoring bullying and saying “boys will be boys” isn’t toxic masculinity, what is? I thought I was pretty clear in my reply, but I’ll try again and then give up. The bullies are displaying toxic masculinity and the bystanders are excusing and enabling it. In the ad, there’s a guy who starts catcalling some woman walking by – toxic masculinity. Rather than ignoring it, the other guy says, hey, that’s not cool. Had he not said that, he wouldn’t have been displaying toxic masculinity himself, but he would be ignoring and enabling the TM on display by the other guy. It’s saying that we guys should stop doing that crap and we should stop ignoring it when other guys do that crap. It all seemed perfectly clear to me. Anyway, I’m out of pocket for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/91 "2019-01-17T15:03:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Yeah, we already made that progress a long time ago. > > There’s a night and day difference in how men treated women in my teen years (1970’s) and today. > > I just feel the commercial unfairly makes assumptions about men. It seems aimed at a male culture that largely disappeared decades ago Wow. Yes. There has been progress, but if you think this culture “disappeared decades ago”, then you really haven’t been paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![griffen2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@griffen2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffen2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/92 "2019-01-17T15:10:57Z")
I don’t want to take lectures about “toxic masculinity” from [this company.](https://www.flickr.com/photos/8w6thgear/6048409501) Also, Gillette make money off the so-called “pink tax” by charging women more for its razors than men. Also, Gillette’s parent company, Procter & Gamble, buy cheap palm oil from Wilmar International, a company which uses 8 year old child slave labor. Gillette can fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![griffen2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@griffen2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffen2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/93 "2019-01-17T15:13:45Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Your brother was displaying toxic masculinity and your mother was handwaving it away with “boys will be boys”. She wasn’t displaying toxic masculinity. Jeez. > > The commercial has two messages – stop being an asshole and stop ignoring asshole behavior. This isn’t that hard. I don’t want a fucking razor company to tell me to stop being an asshole. Especially since I know for a fact that that same company would tell me to be an even bigger asshole in a heartbeat if they thought doing so would have a 0.001% chance of boosting their bottom line. It’s not the message, it’s the messenger. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/94 "2019-01-17T15:29:01Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I thought I was pretty clear in my reply, but I’ll try again and then give up. The bullies are displaying toxic masculinity and the bystanders are excusing and enabling it. In the ad, there’s a guy who starts catcalling some woman walking by – toxic masculinity. Rather than ignoring it, the other guy says, hey, that’s not cool. Had he not said that, he wouldn’t have been displaying toxic masculinity himself, but he would be ignoring and enabling the TM on display by the other guy. That’s a pretty narrow distinction to draw. If turning a blind eye to bullying isn’t toxic masculinity, why does the ad show only men doing it? It shows a line of men standing behind a line of outdoor barbecues (stereotype much?) all saying “boys will be boys.” The only maternal figure in the ad is a woman holding a young child, presumably comforting him after all the insults he’s suffered. One of the outdoor chefs does come forward at the end to break up a fight. You may think that turning a blind eye to bullying doesn’t fit some strict definition of “toxic masculinity”, but the ad portrays it as something men do and women don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/95 "2019-01-17T15:54:15Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > No, the commercial has one message “If you buy our products, you are a good person.” Also that “it used to be the case that if you bought our products, you were an asshole, but now you should buy our products to show that you’re **not** an asshole.” The problem is that I don’t care if Gillette thought I was an asshole before, or thinks I’m not an asshole now. I just want a nice, close shave. I didn’t bully people or harass women then, just because I was nicely shaven. So it didn’t work before, so it is not likely to work now. PSAs on toxic masculinity from a razor company. Maybe I should grow a beard. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/96 "2019-01-17T16:04:03Z")
So, does Male Chauvinist, Male Chauvinist Pig, and Toxic Masculinity all mean the same thing? MCP became such a common phrase that it got shortened to initials. The phrase even earned a place in Merriam Websters dictionary. Although their definition seems a bit simplistic. > **[Definition of MALE CHAUVINIST PIG](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/male%20chauvinist%20pig)** > > a man who thinks women are not equal to men… See the full definition ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/97 "2019-01-17T16:15:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > So, does Male Chauvinist, Male Chauvinist Pig, and Toxic Masculinity all mean the same thing? > > MCP became such a common phrase that it got shortened to initials. > > The phrase even earned a place in Merriam Websters dictionary. Although their definition seems a bit simplistic. > [Male chauvinist pig Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/male%20chauvinist%20pig) No. Toxic masculinity doesn’t necessarily assert superiority of the male gender. Although I imagine the Venn diagram is pretty much a perfect circle. Toxic masculinity is just promoting or enforcing stereotypes of what it means to be a man that are harmful. So, for example, suppressing emotion would be an example of toxic masculinity but not chauvinism. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/98 "2019-01-17T16:21:05Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/99 "2019-01-17T16:49:47Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That’s a pretty narrow distinction to draw. If turning a blind eye to bullying isn’t toxic masculinity, why does the ad show only men doing it? It shows a line of men standing behind a line of outdoor barbecues (stereotype much?) all saying “boys will be boys.” The only maternal figure in the ad is a woman holding a young child, presumably comforting him after all the insults he’s suffered. One of the outdoor chefs does come forward at the end to break up a fight. > > You may think that turning a blind eye to bullying doesn’t fit some strict definition of “toxic masculinity”, but the ad portrays it as something men do and women don’t. Often, when women stand up against it, they are accused of “being too sensitive” or “not getting the joke”. If they don’t stand up against it, it becomes a victim-blaming exercise of “why didn’t you say/do something?” ignoring the fact that if you are already in a position of less power, it can be almost impossible to make a difference. No. Men are not the only ones that turn a blind eye, but when men step in on behalf of victims, it is often more powerful. Toxic masculinity - using narrow stereotypes (like the BBQ scenario) to define men - is grossly unfair to men. Why wouldn’t anyone want to whatever they could to stop it? If it bothers you to see it portrayed, then there is a reason. Men are so much more than BBQs and “boys will be boys”. It should make you angry to see it narrowed that much. And it should make you want to do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873/100 "2019-01-17T16:59:45Z")
> [@griffen2](#): > > I don’t want to take lectures about “toxic masculinity” from [this company.](https://www.flickr.com/photos/8w6thgear/6048409501) > > Also, Gillette make money off the so-called “pink tax” by charging women more for its razors than men. > > Also, Gillette’s parent company, Procter & Gamble, buy cheap palm oil from Wilmar International, a company which uses 8 year old child slave labor. When you put it this way, it seems like Gillette will do whatever they think will sell more products/make more money. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-gillette-ad/827873.md?page=6)