# The New Joker **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 28, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760 "2007-05-28T05:17:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/61 "2007-12-02T12:51:18Z")
[QUOTE=Ranchoth] Well, I’m just still hoping he kills and/or cripples Katie Holmes on camera. [/QUOTE] Katie Holmes isn’t going to be in it, the role has been recast with Maggie Gyllenhaal. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/62 "2007-12-02T13:01:01Z")
[Ledger’s menacing Joker.](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2183/2080664578_3a3def2451.jpg?v=0) ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/63 "2007-12-02T15:00:11Z")
[QUOTE=GuanoLad] Katie Holmes isn’t going to be in it, the role has been recast with Maggie Gyllenhaal. [/QUOTE] I know, that’s why I added the more plot-relevant postscript…and with the rimshot… Bah…screw it. Where’d I leave the Smilex? Back to the subject at hand, it looks like (from the pictures) that the character’s supposed to be wearing makeup, or only had chemical exposure to his head, judging by the fairly clear line of clown white. Eh, maybe the actual performance makes all the difference, but I think I still prefer the Joker design from [Batman: Dead End](http://www.theforce.net/fanfilms/nonsw/batman_deadend/index.asp). ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/64 "2007-12-02T15:08:01Z")
I think he looks like shit, frankly. Lousy appearance. None of the over-the-top hysteria that is characteristic of the Joker comes through in those photos. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/65 "2007-12-02T15:28:06Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] [Sneak peak of the Joker on _Empire_’s cover.](http://www.illusiontv.com/news/2007/11/empires-joker-pic-leaked-early/) [/QUOTE] _“Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice!”_ What the hell is the deal with all the filthy, smeary black eyeliner? The conspicuously grotty quality of the makeup confirms my earlier suspicions: this Joker has nothing to do with the character from the comics. He’s wandered in from Lions Gate Films. Or possibly from Universal Studio’s Halloween Horror Nights-- the hastily put-together ensemble has a definite “haunted attraction” vibe. Nice vest, though. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/66 "2007-12-02T17:14:13Z")
I can’t help but wonder how many times a day Aaron hears the “Eckhart … think about the future” line. ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/67 "2007-12-03T00:52:02Z")
[More Photos](http://www.uruloki.org/felipeblog/cine-de-ciencia-ficcin/exclusiva-mundial-seis-fotos-promocionales-de-the-dark-knight-nunca-vistas-y-otras-noticias-de-domingo). I’m definitely impressed by this Joker design. Kind of meh on the Batman costume, though. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/68 "2007-12-03T01:55:37Z")
[QUOTE=Hodge] [More Photos](http://www.uruloki.org/felipeblog/cine-de-ciencia-ficcin/exclusiva-mundial-seis-fotos-promocionales-de-the-dark-knight-nunca-vistas-y-otras-noticias-de-domingo). I’m definitely impressed by this Joker design. Kind of meh on the Batman costume, though. [/QUOTE] Looking good. That first picture from the viral ad campaign had me worried, but these more recent pictures have reassured me that they seem to be doing things right. Here a question: If they do include Holly Quinn (maybe in a sequel?) who would you like to see cast? Remember, Holly is full of enthusiasm and bubbly energy, but she’s not very smart and basically has the mindset of a groupie. I can see Brittney Spears in that role. Assuming she doesn’t OD first. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/69 "2007-12-03T02:45:46Z")
Ledger and Gyllenhaal - together again, at last. What? Oh, crap. The wrong Gyllenhaal. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/70 "2007-12-03T03:02:22Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] Here a question: If they do include Holly Quinn (maybe in a sequel?) who would you like to see cast? Remember, Holly is full of enthusiasm and bubbly energy, but she’s not very smart and basically has the mindset of a groupie. I can see Brittney Spears in that role. Assuming she doesn’t OD first. [/QUOTE] I said it months ago and I’ll say it again: Rachael Ray. But that’s more for my fetish of seeing her squeezed into the costume than anything else. More seriously, it would be kind of a hoot to see Sarah Chalke from _Scrubs_ as Harley Quinn. Let’s not forget she was the Joker’s psychiatrist before she fell in love with him and became his partner/sidekick/groupie/possible lover, so she did have some smarts before falling under his thrall. She is blonde like Harley, cute, bubbly and chipper, and has experience playing a doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/71 "2007-12-03T03:07:04Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] Here a question: If they do include Holly Quinn (maybe in a sequel?) who would you like to see cast? Remember, Holly is full of enthusiasm and bubbly energy, but she’s not very smart and basically has the mindset of a groupie. I can see Brittney Spears in that role. Assuming she doesn’t OD first. [/QUOTE] Wrong Brittney. All through Eight Mile I was thinking, damn, it’s [Harley](http://www.availableimages.com/celebs/m/brittany-murphy/pictures-8-mile_pph_17.html) [Quinn](http://www.availableimages.com/celebs/m/brittany-murphy/pictures-don't-say-a-word_pph_8.html). (Links contain ads with scantliy clad women, but not terribly NSFW.) ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/72 "2007-12-03T03:34:07Z")
I \*love \*this take on The Joker. He’s twisted and looks diseased. If I say him in the streets, I wanted want him to even look at me. As much as I love classic comics Joker, I don’t mind that they’ve changed the look. Batman begins was slightly grittier and more grounded than the comics. It makes sense that the look would be (in character) makeup over scar tissue, rather than a chemical bath somehow perfectly replicating greasepaint. Besides, the idea of a person who suffers horrible facial scarring and thinks “you know what would work with this? clown paint” gives me the jibblies. Rumor has it Ledger spent six weeks in a room with copies of The Killing Joke and Arkham Asylum to get into the Joker’s head. I’m not sure I buy it, but that’s a decent supervillain origin story right there. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/73 "2007-12-03T04:19:15Z")
The added forehead wrinkles to make him look older somewhat bothers me. Since Ledger isn’t terribly thin, the old paint makes him look a bit dumpy instead of looking like someone buff. For a supervillain, I imagine that you’re much better to go for buff than dumpy. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/74 "2007-12-03T07:40:17Z")
[QUOTE=Hodge] [More Photos](http://www.uruloki.org/felipeblog/cine-de-ciencia-ficcin/exclusiva-mundial-seis-fotos-promocionales-de-the-dark-knight-nunca-vistas-y-otras-noticias-de-domingo). I’m definitely impressed by this Joker design. Kind of meh on the Batman costume, though. [/QUOTE] Now _those_ look better—maybe because he seems to be acting in-character more, not just displayed for a photo session. (As Batman…eh, I’ve seen worse. Looks a little “Mecha,” but it’s better than rubber nipples. Or charcoal underoos over gray tights, which just looks silly, dangerously unarmored, and probably smelly.) Pesonally, I’d go for more of a porphyria/vitiligo look to effect the skin blanching—not as even as pure clown white, but it’d appear more (un?)natural, and wouldn’t have to cut off at the edges of his clothing. ---
**Author:** ![Capa84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8edcca/32.png) [@Capa84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capa84)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/75 "2007-12-04T21:40:53Z")
> **[UGO](http://www.ugo.com)** > > UGO is a pop culture comedy site. We celebrate our obsessions by cracking jokes and making awesome videos. We kid because we love. First 6 minutes of the movie were released to some critics ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/76 "2007-12-04T22:47:14Z")
I’m really looking forward to this. I love the new look of the Joker and even though I hate the character of Batman himself, \*Batman Begins \*was the best mainstream superhero movie I’ve seen ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2007, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/77 "2007-12-04T23:38:30Z")
If you guys are interested in some of the viral stuff on the web: check this out: > **[42 Entertainment](http://www.42entertainment.com/work/whysoserious)** > > 42 Entertainment Warning: this one has music playing. And also visit: [http://www.whysoserious.com/](http://www.whysoserious.com/) The first one is presumably the entire movie crew in Joker makeup. The second is the result(s) of a web treasure-hunt. Each of the pics that make up the note was submitted by people who followed instructions on the site. Clicking at the bottom right of the note shows you another preview pic of the joker, which when clicked then leads to you to a page where people have submitted photos of themselves got up like the joker at famous landmarks. Entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/78 "2007-12-05T05:48:08Z")
[QUOTE=Aesiron] I’m really looking forward to this. I love the new look of the Joker and even though I hate the character of Batman himself, \*Batman Begins \*was the best mainstream superhero movie I’ve seen [/QUOTE] I’d love it if the movies went _really_ dark with Batman (and he has lots of potential for that - where Batman is virtually indistinguishable from the villian he’s fighting). No movie theatre has the stones, though. ---
**Author:** ![anamnesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@anamnesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anamnesis)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/79 "2007-12-05T06:24:56Z")
I’m no expert, but in all fairness, theatres don’t have much say in the creative process. They just sell the product. I think that notion was hinted at in ‘Begins’ though … the hallucinogen caused Batman to appear just as dark and evil as his enemies, obviously to show the dark intensity of the character. Granted, it was only a hallucination rather than real character traits, but I don’t think Batman can become the kind of morose anti-hero envisioned in the grittier Miller-era comics where they had the opportunity to explore the darkest side of the good guy. As much as us fans would love to see a ruthlessly dark Batman, Hollywood always wants wants the protagonist to have some contrast with the antagonist to tell a satisfying “good vs. evil” story in less than three hours which appeals to a wide audience. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760/80 "2007-12-05T08:21:42Z")
[QUOTE=anamnesis] I’m no expert, but in all fairness, theatres don’t have much say in the creative process. They just sell the product. I think that notion was hinted at in ‘Begins’ though … the hallucinogen caused Batman to appear just as dark and evil as his enemies, obviously to show the dark intensity of the character. Granted, it was only a hallucination rather than real character traits, but I don’t think Batman can become the kind of morose anti-hero envisioned in the grittier Miller-era comics where they had the opportunity to explore the darkest side of the good guy. As much as us fans would love to see a ruthlessly dark Batman, Hollywood always wants wants the protagonist to have some contrast with the antagonist to tell a satisfying “good vs. evil” story in less than three hours which appeals to a wide audience. [/QUOTE] Not to mention that he’d be completely, utterly unrecognizable as the comic book Batman. Batman in comics can be intense sometimes, but he is undeniably a goodguy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-joker/405760.md?page=5)