# The new political dichotomy? Globalism vs Patriotism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961 "2018-09-26T18:28:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/21 "2018-09-26T19:52:43Z")
Patriotism is never a political issue. It can’t be one. Anyone who votes is patriotic, period. The conflict over whether nationalism (not patriotism) is good, is an extremely old and well-known one, nothing new there. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/22 "2018-09-26T19:55:28Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > “Globalism” is code for Them Jews. Hasn’t always been the case, but today it 100% is. Non-antisemites talk about globalization, or international X and so on. No it isn’t. You can’t counter Trump’s speech on the issues, so you imagine he is talking in code, and then you attack him based on your fantasized (and wrong) decoding. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/23 "2018-09-26T20:00:08Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Patriotism is never a political issue. It can’t be one. Anyone who votes is patriotic, period. > > The conflict over whether nationalism (not patriotism) is good, is an extremely old and well-known one, nothing new there. I agree. I think globalist vs. anti-globalist is better terminology. I am annoyed with Trump’s word choice. I think chosing “patriotism” as the word to use to mean “anti-globalist” was unsportsmanlike. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/24 "2018-09-26T20:05:06Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > No it isn’t. You can’t counter Trump’s speech on the issues, so you imagine he is talking in code, and then you attack him based on your fantasized (and wrong) decoding. All right. Define globalism, then, please. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/25 "2018-09-26T20:05:18Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > And you need to watch the video to see the context of the laughter. The mainstream media has misconstrued it. I’m curious in what context YOU think the laughter is? I saw him speak, saw the crowd wait for the translation, and then start laughing. What do YOU see? What do you think they are laughing at? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/26 "2018-09-26T20:06:04Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > No it isn’t. Then you tell us how you and Trump are using it. You’ve already been asked this. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/27 "2018-09-26T20:12:21Z")
The business of America is business. And there’s more business outside of America than just in it. A patriot wants his country to be the strongest and most influential. Not being the 800 pound monkey is just being the 800 pound monkey’s chew toy. Anti-globalism isn’t patriotic, it’s anti-American. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/28 "2018-09-26T20:15:41Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Then you tell us how you and Trump are using it. You’ve already been asked this. Read the speech, he gives numerous specific foreign policy manuevers which were “anti-globalist”. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/29 "2018-09-26T20:16:46Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Read the speech, he gives numerous specific foreign policy manuevers which were “anti-globalist”. What is “globalism”? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/30 "2018-09-26T20:18:14Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > a) What has the administration done that is corrupt? > b) White nationalism is not engulfing the country. The mainstream media is trying hard to deceive you into thinking that though, because the establishment does not like Trump, and wants you to vote the Democrats in so he will be impeached. > c) I think the investigation into Russian collusion has turned up nothing: if it did, it would have already leaked. I am surprised you still believe it. > And you need to watch the video to see the context of the laughter. The mainstream media has misconstrued it. I’m not going to get pulled down a rabbit hole of defending points that are well established. There is ample evidence that Russia interfered in the elections (indeed, there is evidence Russian trolls have targeted this very board); there is ample evidence that Trump and members of his administration have been pandering to white nationalism and I have seen the video of Trump being laughed and his statement that he didn’t expect that reaction. Now to you: how do you define globalism and how do you define patriotism. Why do you think that the two are incompatible? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/31 "2018-09-26T20:18:15Z")
“not a political issue” - sorry, of course it’s always a political issue. “not an **election** issue” - ever. Anyone who tries to make patriotism an election issue, dividing parties or factions, is being deceptive. (Patriotism includes “everybody get out and vote”, but that’s universal.) ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/32 "2018-09-26T20:25:42Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Read the speech, he gives numerous specific foreign policy manuevers which were “anti-globalist”. You used quotation marks there but aren’t actually quoting anything because that term doesn’t get used in your link. Trump is calling for the US and other countries to re-establish democracy in Venezuela. I guess that’s “anti-globalist”? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/33 "2018-09-26T20:27:03Z")
I would like to ask people in the thread if this is a reasonable assessment of the situation. I’m dumb. I believe “globalism” has a distinct meaning to some. Globalism encompasses corporatism. Corporatism, in this belief structure, amounts to an idea that efficiency should matter more than anything; anything that gets in the way of profits is bad. Borders get in the way of profits. Putting American interests ahead of anyone else’s interest gets in the way of profits. So, by extension, patriotism means forcing companies and foreign countries to conform to policies that will benefit American citizens. I believe that this is what it is understood to mean by some people. Other people see it differently - in less favorable terms. Of these other views one such is that America is using its power to act as a bully and this way of dealing with the world is ignoble and flies in the face of common notions of fairness. Another such view is that this is all nonsense rhetoric creating a false boogeyman of evil foreigners and evil foreign countries marketed to the uneducated and unintelligent. Alex Jones is a big hit. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/34 "2018-09-26T20:28:53Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Is this what the midterms are about? Is voting for Republicans a vote for “patriotism”? Is voting for Democrats a vote for “globalism”? OP doesn’t answer these questions or make an argument. What do you think, and why? Show your work. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/35 "2018-09-26T20:34:11Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > No, it isn’t. Yes, it is. Gosh, my argument is as coherent as yours. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/36 "2018-09-26T20:59:33Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > You can’t counter Trump’s speech on the issues There were actual issues raised in a Trump speech? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/37 "2018-09-26T21:19:34Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Read the speech, he gives numerous specific foreign policy manuevers which were “anti-globalist”. Yet you have utterly failed to provide any of those specifics. This is a poor way to win a debate. As others have noted, he does not use the term anti-globalist in the speech. But let’s see if I can divine your meaning anyway. Perusing the speech, I see… > [@](#): > > …With support from many countries here today, we have engaged with North Korea to replace the specter of conflict with a bold and new push for peace… > the United States is working with the Gulf Cooperation Council, Jordan, and Egypt to establish a regional strategic alliance so that Middle Eastern nations can advance prosperity, stability, and security across their home region… > We will continue to work with friends and allies to deny radical Islamic terrorists funding, territory, or support or any means of infiltrating our borders… > We are working with countries that import Iranian crude oil to cut their purchases substantially… > Last month, we announced a groundbreaking U.S.-Mexico trade agreement. > Just yesterday, I stood with President Moon to announce the successful completion of the brand-new U.S.-Korea trade deal… > The United States is also working with partners in Latin America to confront threats to sovereignty from uncontrolled migration… > we ask the nations gathered here to join us in calling for the restoration of democracy in Venezuela… Please educate me on how this is “anti-globalist”. ETA: What the speech is about is “America First” - we’ll take care of us, so you all better be thinking about how you’re treating us, because you’re on notice. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/38 "2018-09-26T21:35:48Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Read the speech, he gives numerous specific foreign policy manuevers which were “anti-globalist”. You can’t define a thing by the opposite of the thing outside of pure maths (and even then, it’s kind of a weak move). Define globalism. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/39 "2018-09-26T22:19:39Z")
[The Origins of the ‘Globalist’ Slur](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/the-origins-of-the-globalist-slur/555479/) There, OP: your ignorance has been fought. The term refers to the Jews and has for decades. Hopefully this clears things up for you. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961/40 "2018-09-26T22:26:52Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Trump’s speech laid out the “vote for my party, I’m anti-globalist” argument (I prefer the term anti-globalist). I haven’t seen any campaign ads. I have noticed a constant bombardment of the theme Trump and Republicans are bigoted in mainstream media. And I don’t believe they are. I’ve never seen an argument for something globalist, like say NAFTA. You’ve never seen an argument for NAFTA? You’re not looking very hard. I found this in 30 seconds: > **[6 Hidden Benefits of NAFTA](https://www.thebalancemoney.com/advantages-of-nafta-3306271)** > > The six advantages of NAFTA included quadrupling of trade, boosting growth, and cutting costs. Learn recent statistics for all six benefits. “Between 1993-2017 … the United States increased its exports of goods to the other two from $142 billion to $525 billion. That’s a third of its total exports.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-political-dichotomy-globalism-vs-patriotism/821961.md?page=3)