# The new proposed ban on "assault weapons" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2013, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423 "2013-01-26T09:06:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/81 "2013-01-27T20:33:22Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Anyone who supports an assault weapon ban is a bad person. They are either an idiot who does not recognise that an assault weapon is functionally equivalent to a less scary looking weapon, or they are a corrupt asshole trying to take advantage of the former to advance another agenda. Actually, it’s the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/82 "2013-01-27T21:13:24Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Actually, it’s the opposite. See above. Disparaging comments about groups of people are allowed, but I don’t want posters calling either other idiots or assholes in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/83 "2013-01-27T21:40:44Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > I’m a gun owner. I own a pump shotgun that’s my primary home defense weapon (nothing and I mean nothing will scare an intruder more than the soundsound of a shotgun being racked) and it comes in handy for the occasional rattlesnake that comes onto our property. My wife owns a automatic .22 pistol that she uses to target shoot and I own a .22 semi automatic that the proposed bill would be classified as an assault weapon. This rifle is used for target shooting and eliminating hordes of Taliban soda cans that occasionally invade or target range. > The problem I have with this ban is that it does absolutely zero to address the problems we are facing. It seems to me that a weapon is put on the list because it is scary looking, while others that have the same exact functionality are still legal. A great example is the .22 rifle I own. It is a Mossberg 715T. Semi automatic and available with 25 round magazine. It has a pistol grip, folding stock and barrel guard. In short everything that qualifies it to be banned. It looks like a M16, so even that makes it a “dangerous” weapon. > > Here’s where this bill makes absolutely no sense. The 715T that I own and described above is nothing more than the Mossberg Plinkster rifle, a traditional target shooting rifle, with a plastic housing on it to make it look like an M16. When I say nothing more, it is the exact same rifle. The 715T would be banned, yet the Plinkster (with the optional ten round magazine) would not be. Keep in mind that you can at this time purchase a 25 round magazine for the Plinkster, but does that really matter? I can change a magazine and be ready to fire again in a few seconds. So, can someone explain to me how any of us would be safer if this bill passes and my 715T is banned? Anyone determined to cause a massacre can do exactly the same thing with the Plinkster, but they just won’t look as cool doing it. Did the politicians who authored this bill even put some thought into it? I swear that they don’t care a wit about doing something meaningful, but rather the goal is to look like they’re doing something meaningful. > > Here are the firearms in my example. The “scary” 715T: > [http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifles-autoloading-rimfire-international-715t-flat-top/37207](http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifles-autoloading-rimfire-international-715t-flat-top/37207) > > And now the “lowly” Plinkster: > [http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifles-autoloading-rimfire-international-plinkster-702-22/37001](http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifles-autoloading-rimfire-international-plinkster-702-22/37001) > > Exactly the same gun, but one looks more dangerous than the other. But the"safer"looking one can do everything the other can. So by banning the assault version, what has been accomplished? > > You might be asking, why I choose to purchase the 715 model instead of the Plinkster if they’re the same gun. The answer is simply style, I like the way it looks compared to the other. No different than buying the sport model of a car because it’s the one with the nice rims and spoiler. The same is true of the popular Ruger 10/22. It’s a starter rifle with a 10 shot magazine, pretty harmless. I bought my son one when he turned 18, like the one on the top in the following image. A plinking gun for shooting targets, cans, whatever. The black gun at the bottom of the picture is the same gun. > **[Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/imgres?q=ruger%2B10%2F22&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1920&bih=934&tbm=isch&tbnid=0K2-IyqcCg5PHM:&imgrefurl=http:%2F%2Fsonoran6.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F12%2F7-ruger-1022-accessories-for-survival.html&docid=xuZ_Ca0_oKC1cM&imgurl=http:%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-fYwo_gHvUAw%2FTu1qUN2KFoI%2FAAAAAAAAAKA%2Fuhg66mVPXRs%2Fs1600%2Fruger_banner.jpg&w=994&h=601&ei=NZ0FUcz0J5SWqAH8qYC4AQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=512&vpy=166&dur=91&hovh=174&hovw=289&tx=183&ty=79&sig=105781574716478178351&page=1&tbnh=129&tbnw=214&start=0&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:156)** ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/84 "2013-01-27T21:57:30Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > The same is true of the popular Ruger 10/22. It’s a starter rifle with a 10 shot magazine, pretty harmless… A plinking gun for shooting targets, cans, whatever. > > The black gun at the bottom of the picture is the same gun. > > [http://www.google.com/imgres?q=ruger+10/22&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1920&bih=934&tbm=isch&tbnid=0K2-IyqcCg5PHM:&imgrefurl=http://sonoran6.blogspot.com/2011/12/7-ruger-1022-accessories-for-survival.html&docid=xuZ\_Ca0\_oKC1cM&imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fYwo\_gHvUAw/Tu1qUN2KFoI/AAAAAAAAAKA/uhg66mVPXRs/s1600/ruger\_banner.jpg&w=994&h=601&ei=NZ0FUcz0J5SWqAH8qYC4AQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=512&vpy=166&dur=91&hovh=174&hovw=289&tx=183&ty=79&sig=105781574716478178351&page=1&tbnh=129&tbnw=214&start=0&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:156](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=ruger+10/22&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1920&bih=934&tbm=isch&tbnid=0K2-IyqcCg5PHM:&imgrefurl=http://sonoran6.blogspot.com/2011/12/7-ruger-1022-accessories-for-survival.html&docid=xuZ_Ca0_oKC1cM&imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fYwo_gHvUAw/Tu1qUN2KFoI/AAAAAAAAAKA/uhg66mVPXRs/s1600/ruger_banner.jpg&w=994&h=601&ei=NZ0FUcz0J5SWqAH8qYC4AQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=512&vpy=166&dur=91&hovh=174&hovw=289&tx=183&ty=79&sig=105781574716478178351&page=1&tbnh=129&tbnw=214&start=0&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:156) [This is also the same gun](http://outdoorlife.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341c03be53ef010535c1e23f970b-800wi). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/85 "2013-01-27T21:59:35Z")
You guys have definitely convinced me that assault weapons are not the problem to solve. At least not now. I never liked Feinstein as the SF mayor and I don’t like her now. Her efforts are not a practical way to gain anything expend precious political capital. The problem to solve is mandatory registrations and eliminating the gun show/straw buyer option. Chhhhhrist, if you have to register a vehicle, pass a test every few years and have insurance, you’d think we could do something similar for firearms. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/86 "2013-01-27T22:07:08Z")
The better course would be to fix the social problems in this country that lead to violence. And to increase spending on mental health (which, ironically, Republicans now seem to support). ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/87 "2013-01-27T22:10:19Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The better course would be to fix the social problems in this country that lead to violence. Sure. Coming right up. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/88 "2013-01-27T22:14:27Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > The problem to solve is mandatory registrations Please explain, in vast detail, how this will curtail any gun related crimes? The majority of people committing crimes with guns already can’t legally own one, so how is something like registration going to do anything. (Hint: it won’t.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/89 "2013-01-27T22:14:35Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Sure. Coming right up. ☹ That’s rather the point. Passing laws that do nothing is easy. Fixing a problem is hard. EDIT: Gah! I am _not_ going to get myself sucked into this thread! ☹ . ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/90 "2013-01-27T22:18:02Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > You guys have definitely convinced me that assault weapons are not the problem to solve. Great! > [@](#): > > At least not now. Now, see, what does _that_ mean? “Yes, this would be a bad idea…we’ll wait a few years, and _then_ do it!” ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/91 "2013-01-27T22:36:42Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Please explain, in vast detail, how this will curtail any gun related crimes? The majority of people committing crimes with guns already can’t legally own one, so how is something like registration going to do anything. (Hint: it won’t.) This all over again. If you don’t register, then you’re neither a responsible gun owner nor law abiding citizen. Penalties will apply. Over time it will reduce illegal guns. Or We can just say that it’s too big a problem so let’s do nothing. Kinda like either drunk driving or uninsured motorists. The problem isn’t fixed 100% but the situation has improved over the past few decades. ME Buckner - I advocate make some real changes first to registration and straw buyers. The auusault weapons aren’t a priority and may never be a problem big enough to require special laws if We fix the registration, gun show loopholes, straw buyers issue. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/92 "2013-01-27T22:50:41Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > ME Buckner - I advocate make some real changes first to registration and straw buyers. The auusault weapons aren’t a priority and may never be a problem big enough to require special laws if We fix the registration, gun show loopholes, straw buyers issue. Continuing to leave “assault weapons” on the table makes it that much harder to enact universal background checks or anything else: “The pro-gun control crowd keep talking about wanting to ban some arbitrary set of guns. That’s always their go-to answer–make up a completely bogus category of guns, and then ban it! No way am I gonna be on board with them having a list of the guns I own!” ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/93 "2013-01-27T23:01:57Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > This all over again. If you don’t register, then you’re neither a responsible gun owner nor law abiding citizen. Penalties will apply. Over time it will reduce illegal guns. You’re really ignorant about street crime and how thugs are getting guns and such, aren’t you? Are you at least aware that what happened in Conn. is an extreme exception and not what the majority of gun related crimes are in this country? You don’t really think the scumbags in the inner cities are going into federally licensed gun stores, filling out paper work, going through background checks, etc. to legally obtain a firearm, and then taking that gun to rob a liquor store, do you? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/94 "2013-01-27T23:07:25Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Anyone who supports an assault weapon ban is a bad person. They are either an idiot who does not recognise that an assault weapon is functionally equivalent to a less scary looking weapon, or they are a corrupt asshole trying to take advantage of the former to advance another agenda. Guess who said the following. > [@](#): > > I spent a career carrying typically either a M16 and later, a M4 carbine, and a M4 carbine fires a .223 caliber round, which is 5.56 millimeters, at about 3,000 feet per second. When it hits a human body, the effects are devastating. It’s designed to do that. That’s what our soldiers ought to carry. > > I personally don’t think there’s any need for that kind of weaponry on the streets, and particularly around the schools in America. He might take offense at your characterization of [him](http://www.newsmax.com/US/guns-assault-mcchrystal-ban/2013/01/08/id/470472). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/95 "2013-01-27T23:37:41Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > You’re really ignorant about street crime and how thugs are getting guns and such, aren’t you? Not really. Most guns started out as legal. Then “legal” gun owners sell them on without any registration or background checks. Ditto with the gun show loophole. Ditto with the straw buyers. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/96 "2013-01-27T23:38:44Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Continuing to leave “assault weapons” on the table makes it that much harder to enact universal background checks or anything else: > > “The pro-gun control crowd keep talking about wanting to ban some arbitrary set of guns. That’s always their go-to answer–make up a completely bogus category of guns, and then ban it! No way am I gonna be on board with them having a list of the guns I own!” True dat! Makes me wonder if Feinstein isn’t a NRA mole (I don’t really think she is, but the results of her efforts have the same effect). ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/97 "2013-01-28T00:19:56Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Most guns started out as legal. What’s a gun that started out as illegal? ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/98 "2013-01-28T00:50:55Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > This is true. But the failure of regional regulation isn’t itself evidence that such measures could never be effective on a national scale; after all, it’s trivially easy to smuggle weapons from an area where there are no restrictions. Where is this place with no restrictions from which Detroit’s handguns were being smuggled? Do tell. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/99 "2013-01-28T00:58:13Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > What’s a gun that started out as illegal? For American purposes, that would be a gun illegal smuggled into the country from overseas, which I suspect is an extremely small percentage of all guns. Using any form of logic I can imagine, please explain to me how criminals get guns, and explain how the chain of possession for most of those guns does not go back to someone who had a legal right to own the gun and who purchased it legally. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423/100 "2013-01-28T01:18:26Z")
Here’s a pretty good read: [http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf](http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-proposed-ban-on-assault-weapons/648423.md?page=6)