# The new Star Trek movie voids TOS? \[Open Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371 "2009-05-05T00:51:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/21 "2009-05-05T15:10:53Z")
It’s all canon. The consequences of dicking around with the time stream so often have taken their toll. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/22 "2009-05-05T15:16:43Z")
Nothing could have generated the gazillion hours of screentime, both TV and movies, to say nothing of the books and comics, and not have some inconsistencies develop, but overall ST has shown a remarkable degree of consistency in its canon. If you don’t like this new reboot - and I have to admit I have my doubts - just say it takes place in an alternate universe. There are plenty of those already in ST, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/23 "2009-05-05T15:18:49Z")
You know that kid Q had? He’s in a room somewhere, punching reality. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/24 "2009-05-05T16:43:06Z")
As I’ve posted before, the way TOS handled the Romulans in _Run Silent, Run …_ er, that is, in “Balance of Terror” made inconsistencies almost inevitable, especially when they started trying to flesh out the earlier history of the Federation. In that episode, it’s asserted that the prior war between the Federation and the Romulans (ends 75 or so years prior to the episode, IIRC) was fought with nuclear weapons (instead of phasers and photon torpedos), without any visual communication between the sides. Needless to say, this concept of earlier Federation capabilities has long since bit the Twinkie. I will be interested to see how they treat the situation, but if they are not willing to adhere reasonably close to a decent sense of continuity, I’ll be upset/disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/25 "2009-05-05T17:00:41Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > if they are not willing to adhere reasonably close to a decent sense of continuity, I’ll be upset/disappointed. It’s a few decades too late to worry about that, innit? It’s a movie. Relax and enjoy. Just out of curiosity, when did this remarkable concept of “canon” get started, and who is its arbiter? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/26 "2009-05-05T17:11:15Z")
Ah, to heck with the history of Federation-Romulan relations – how are they going to reasonably stick with a canon that had the Eugenics Wars ending _ten years before our now_? I see according to the [timeline](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Star_Trek), this year we’re sending a successful spaceprobe to Saturn, and in less than ten years “sleeper ships” will be obsolete. The whole ST canon is borked and adhering to it would just make it subject to ridicule by modern audiences. Plus, most of the ST canon is crap, anyway. If the new ST movie invalidates all of that – more power to 'em, Scotty! All the fans who’ll be crying bitter tears over it will at least be able to dry those tears on their authentic Starfleet uniforms with the _correct_ braid to indicate their service and rank. Gold braid can soak up a lot of bitter tears, I bet. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/27 "2009-05-05T17:15:22Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Yes, once you see the new movie, you will have no recollection of TOS or any of the Star Trek Films that featured the original cast. No Motion Picture. NO Wrath of Khan, NO Search for Spock, NO The Voyage Home, NO The Undiscovered Country Worse yet, you will remember The Final Frontier more vividly than ever. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/28 "2009-05-05T17:22:11Z")
There was a time in my life when I cared about the Star Trek canon, and worried whether my favorite parts from the books were going to ever be widely accepted. It bothered me that the racial characteristics of the Klingons and the Romulans completely changed places several times during the series. Etc. Then I grew up. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/29 "2009-05-05T17:33:32Z")
I got this when it came out in 1980: **Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology** , by Goldstein & Sternbach. [Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek_Spaceflight_Chronology) It pathed out the near future, but became obsolete (and non-canon). I got used to Paramount violating canon long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/30 "2009-05-05T17:49:27Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > But you will have TOTAL RECALL of STV:The Final Frontier! > > BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! What the hell are you talking about. I’ve seen every Star Trek Film and there is no such film. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/31 "2009-05-05T17:55:38Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > But you will have TOTAL RECALL of STV:The Final Frontier! That movie sucked. Sure, we had Sharon Stone offering to get tied up, but the plot made no sense! ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/32 "2009-05-05T18:08:25Z")
> [@Roadfood](#): > > It’s fiction. Can’t you just choose to believe whatever you want? Why does it matter to you what the “official” canon says? I’m not being snarky, I truly don’t understand why anyone would care what’s “official” or not when it comes to a fiction that’s been around for so many years; why the dictates of others would affect you at all. Like, if the official canon invalidates the TOS episodes, you won’t be able to enjoy watching them anymore? Well it may be too late now for Star Trek (mainly because of the multiple authors), but any fiction is more satisfying if it has consistency. I’ve read many Rex Stout novels featuring Nero Wolfe for example and it helps me get into the world when I meet familiar characters. I don’t like science fiction where random discoveries are introduced because the author didn’t plan the plot. I don’t like anachronisms in films or TV. Let’s have some standards! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/33 "2009-05-05T18:44:44Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > What the hell are you talking about. I’ve seen every Star Trek Film and there is no such film. It’s an urban legend. People keep dredging it up. ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/34 "2009-05-05T18:45:16Z")
You may want to see this [news story about fan outrage at the new direction the franchise is taking.](http://www.theonion.com/content/video/trekkies_bash_new_star_trek_film?utm_source=onion_rss_daily) ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/35 "2009-05-05T18:55:40Z")
> [@Roadfood](#): > > It’s fiction. Can’t you just choose to believe whatever you want? Why does it matter to you what the “official” canon says? I’m not being snarky, I truly don’t understand why anyone would care what’s “official” or not when it comes to a fiction that’s been around for so many years; why the dictates of others would affect you at all. Like, if the official canon invalidates the TOS episodes, you won’t be able to enjoy watching them anymore? Other people have addressed this, but there’s another problem (at least for me); I like the canon that’s been before. This doesn’t mean my DVDs will spontaneously combust, and I can still enjoy what I have before, but it does mean that there’s a chance there won’t be any more _new_ stuff set in the situation I do like. In other words; if you like the TOS episodes, this doesn’t invalidate the ones already existing, but it may well mean that the chance there will be new episodes is decreased. Not a huge problem from those, but kind of a big one for the newer series and books. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/36 "2009-05-05T18:58:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That movie sucked. Sure, we had Sharon Stone offering to get tied up, but the plot made no sense! Yeah. What does a slut need with a starship? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/37 "2009-05-05T19:02:11Z")
So what pieces of TOS are being violated (can’t get to the Onion at work)? Is the big deal that Spock apparently never served under Christopher Pike? Will Klingons already look like Worf? Will they already have a space shuttle \*before \*the transporter breaks down that first time? What? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/38 "2009-05-05T19:13:20Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yeah. What does a slut need with a starship? To spread the love? ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/39 "2009-05-05T19:15:54Z")
I’ve seen the movie and was going to post about it in this thread, but it’s so spoileriffic I think a new thread would be better. So I’ll just go off and make one. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371/40 "2009-05-05T20:30:00Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > To spread the love? She’s spreadin’ somethin’! :: rimshot :: Thanks, folks. I’ll be here all week. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-star-trek-movie-voids-tos-open-spoilers/495371.md?page=3)