# The new target is... hospice? Wha? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730 "2009-07-30T00:59:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/41 "2009-07-30T04:35:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I’d be interested to read this. Do you have a cite? Sorry; it was a long time ago that I read about it ( '80’s I think perhaps ). I didn’t have a computer at the time, much less cites. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/42 "2009-07-30T04:41:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Sorry; it was a long time ago that I read about it ( '80’s I think perhaps ). I didn’t have a computer at the time, much less cites. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/43 "2009-07-30T07:01:24Z")
They’re called the “deathers”, the birther thing petering out. Its a hoax, launched by a Pubbie operative and lobbyist for Big Health Insurance named Betsy McCaughey. See the story here, at Think Progress (liberal cootie protocols apply) [http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/29/mandatory-consultation/](http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/29/mandatory-consultation/) It is, of course, a lie and anyone who took it seriously for ten seconds is too stupid to make their own oatmeal. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/44 "2009-07-30T12:22:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They’re called the “deathers”, the birther thing petering out. Its a hoax, launched by a Pubbie operative and lobbyist for Big Health Insurance named Betsy McCaughey. > > See the story here, at Think Progress (liberal cootie protocols apply) > > [http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/29/mandatory-consultation/](http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/29/mandatory-consultation/) > > **It is, of course, a lie and anyone who took it seriously for ten seconds is too stupid to make their own oatmeal**. Why is the republican corner so willing to appear so hopelessly STUPID in the press? If I were one of them, I’d never turn on Fox news again. They’re their own worst enemy! Damn it. Now I have to delete some emails to make room for the flood of shit that will come spewing forth from my brother-in-law. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/45 "2009-07-30T12:49:41Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Why is the republican corner so willing to appear so hopelessly STUPID in the press? Because their stupid stuff dominates the press in a way that their actual ideas, if any, never could. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/46 "2009-07-30T12:55:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Why is the republican corner so willing to appear so hopelessly STUPID in the press? If I were one of them, I’d never turn on Fox news again. They’re their own worst enemy! The Republican Party’s been in trouble ever since they figured out that stupid people vote just the same as intelligent people and are a lot easier to manipulate. In the last twenty to thirty years we’ve seen the Republican Party split into two invisible groups. The “inner party” is the minority but it runs things. Their agenda is to get laws passed which favor the wealthy and powerful and their agenda is carried out. These people expect results not promises. The “outer party” is the majority who vote people into office. The inner party tells them whatever works to get them to vote. But once the election’s over, the inner party doesn’t care about them until the next election. The outer party’s agenda has little importance to the inner party. They’ll mostly ignore it when it comes to enacting actual laws. Sometimes even intentionally - not enacting what the outer party people want will keep the issues alive until the next election when their votes are needed again. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/47 "2009-07-30T18:31:18Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > What % of people over the age of 65 depend on medicaid/care as their sole source of medical insurance? I know disabled people who are eligible for medicaid, but have private insurance through their spouses. Wouldn’t this be true of some significant portion of the elderly as well? Generally, Medicare becomes your primary insurance when you turn 65.\* That means that Medicare gets to decide what treatment they will/won’t pay for, etc., just like your private insurance company did before you turned 65. Please note that this does not stop YOU from paying for said treatment. In fact, there’s a special form you have to sign before getting a non-covered service over (IIRC) $500, to confirm that you understand that the service is not covered and that Medicare won’t pay for it so you will have to. Happens every day. The list **jsgoddess** provided is for _supplemental_ insurance, which means insurance which picks up what’s leftover after Medicare pays. Many/most of those plans explicitly deny coverage for anything that Medicare denies coverage for. (If you fall into one of the Exception categories, then you keep your other insurance as primary and Medicare becomes secondary. In those cases, the primary insurance would determine coverage.) So yes, for the vast majority of people over 65 in America, the government already provides healthcare coverage and already determines what will/won’t be covered, etc. Which is why we’ve lost entire generations of our elders, because they were murdered by the enforced hospice treatments required by gov’t healthcare. If it weren’t for the evil government healthcare system, they’d all be alive today. :rolleyes: \*Exceptions: if you are covered by certain employer-sponsored group plans because you or your spouse are currently working (it’s more complicated then that, look it up if you care); if the condition should be covered by some type of third-party liability (e.g., work comp, auto medical, liability coverage, etc.); if you have VA / military / certain other gov’t coverage. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/48 "2009-07-30T19:04:48Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > …Which is why we’ve lost entire generations of our elders, because they were murdered by the enforced hospice treatments required by gov’t healthcare. If it weren’t for the evil government healthcare system, they’d all be alive today… Was a time, this wouldn’t have bothered me much, but I’m wiser now. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/49 "2009-07-30T23:07:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Hospice is bad if you are forced into it by a government health care program that decides your life isn’t worth saving or prolonging. Based on this statement, I’m not even sure you know what hospice is. My mother was diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor in August 2007. She passed away in early May 2008. During all but the last week or so, she was treated as aggressively as possible (and according to her wishes) by a team of at least four doctors, involving both radiation and chemotherapies. The majority of costs (and they were enormous) were covered by medicare. The uninsured cost of the chemo drug alone was in the area of $3000 a month. Hospice was offered as a means of assistance in dealing with the difficulties of caring for someone who inevitably at some point was going to be unable to care for herself and to deal with management of the immediate post-death tasks, and was never forced on us by anyone. The major issue to decide was when continued aggressive treatment was no longer going to be effective or provide any quality of life. Without going into detail, it was pretty clear to everyone, including my Mom herself, when that point was reached. No doctor or government functionary made that decision, or even suggested that it had to be made. I am unaware of any particular information that any government -funded health care scheme plans to ‘force people into hospice’ as a means of avoiding paying for treatment. I suggest that **Starving Artist** come up with a cite or two showing that this is an actual feature of the planned scheme, or withdraw the claim. BTW, while only partially effective, it appears that the Medicare-funded treatment extended my Mom’s life by 4-5 months. Our family simply could not have carried the cost load otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/50 "2009-07-31T00:09:04Z")
Folks, this is about money. Big Money, institutional money, the kind of money that buys legislation like you buy gum. There isn’t a shred of dignity or principle left, and they haven’t even got warmed up yet. This health care thing happens, its going to cost them money. Ever see _Prizzi’s Honor_? There’s a line in there about how the Prizzi’s would rather eat their children than lose their money. And they were very, very fond of their children? Well, in this case, its your children, but the principle’s the same. Time and again, we hear about these slimeballs deliberately injuring people for more money. What makes you think they would scruple at lying, if they’re willing to kill? People like that shouldn’t be allowed to walk around free, much less be rich. The crowning nausea is these people are, in fact, causing people (including seniors) to suffer and die. And they know it. And they have the towering _chutzpah_ to claim that the Dems are conspiring to do what they are already doing! And you think that’s a whopper? Pals and gals, its gonna get a whole lot worse. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/51 "2009-07-31T00:16:06Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Medicare supplemental insurance is a very different animal than it was in 2002, because that was before Medicare Part D (the prescription drug plan). The main function of supplemental insurance these days is to cover the “gaps” in Medicare, namely the deductibles and copayments and charges once limits are reached. > > Not that it makes any difference to the main point, which is that the government is paying the lion’s share of the health care costs for the population in question. [Gallup has a new poll](http://www.gallup.com/poll/121970/Nearly-Insured-Government-Coverage-2008.aspx?CSTS=alert): > [@](#): > > The Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index reveals that currently 29.0% of adult Americans who have health insurance get their coverage through the government, a percentage which has increased since early 2008. > [@](#): > > In June, 77.2% of those aged 65 and older report getting health insurance coverage through a government plan versus 15.0% of those ages 18 to 64. For what it’s worth for the questions in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/52 "2009-07-31T00:44:54Z")
[QUOTE=DoctorJ] The main function of supplemental insurance these days is to cover the “gaps” in Medicare, namely the deductibles and copayments and charges once limits are reached. [/QUOTE] Let us not forget the blessed donut hole. That was a bit of GOP genius, hitting the sickest folk up for $4,000 before coverage resumes. I wonder how many they’ve managed to kill with that money saving trick? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/53 "2009-07-31T00:58:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And wasn’t it our own **Maastricht** who described how in The Netherlands patients who are deemed too old or who need care that is too expensive are given pills to make them confortable and be allowed to die? > > You people want a program that gives you a dime now and withholds thousands later when your life (or that of a loved one) depends on it. My mother had the best for-private health insurance you can get in the US, but this February, when she was very old, we took her home from the hospital, gave her medicine to keep her comfortable, and allowed her to die. It sure beat spending thousands of dollars on treatment for her that would only make a senile old woman terrified, cause her pain, and ultimately do nothing to cure what was wrong with her. Which really exemplifies the boogey-man aspect of this whole issue - a lot of people see hospice as “giving up”, or taking the cheap way out, or something forced. The truth is, people in the US often wait longer than they should to be transferred to hospice and therefore do not derive the fullest benefit of that type of treatment setting. Hospice under Medicare is the last six months of life - I recall hearing the average stay in hospice is actually less than a month. So that’s five months of futile treatments, not uncommonly uncomfortable or even painful treatments, instead of providing comfort and maximizing the quality of remaining life. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/54 "2009-07-31T01:08:41Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Hospice was offered as a means of assistance in dealing with the difficulties of caring for someone who inevitably at some point was going to be unable to care for herself and to deal with management of the immediate post-death tasks, and was never forced on us by anyone. The major issue to decide was when continued aggressive treatment was no longer going to be effective or provide any quality of life. My mother suffered terribly, without remit despite Fentanyl patches and other powerful painkillers, for much of the last few years of her life. Crippled by arthritis to a near-helpless mass of suffering flesh, wheelchairbound, dependent on portable oyxgen, her hearing and eyesight failing, her hands barely functioning; in and out of hospitals for a succession of crises that never quite carried her off; dependent on dozens of pills a day to go on, she spoke openly and with increasing urgency of wanting to die. Her mind was as sharp as her body was enfeebled; she knew exactly what her circumstances were. My three siblings and I didn’t want to lose her but respected her right to decide for herself, at age 89, after one last hospitalization, that she wanted no more lifesaving interventions, that it was time to turn to hospice for their help in easing her last weeks of life. Hospice was wonderful. The people we dealt with were kind, understanding, well-versed in what was needed – for the soon-to-be-bereaved living as much as the soon-to-die – and swiftly arranged all that was necessary for Mom to be liberated from the hospital and brought back to the assisted living that had been her home for the last decade. There, in her suite filled with the furnishings of her life; with her family at her side; with her devoted friends among both residents and staff in the facility coming to express their love, she had 24-hour nursing and, at her will, at times of her choosing, enough morphine to ease – finally! – the bulk of the pain that had tormented her for so long. She lingered for two weeks, sinking slowly but peacefully into the last sleep from which she never awakened. It was a kind and merciful and gentle death. Up until the last day or so Mom was conscious, kept her wits, knew what was going on, and was comforted by it. She looked forward, not with resignation, but with relief to the fast-approaching final sleep. We who were left behind had our grief greatly eased by seeing how kindly and gently she was eased on her final journey, a journey that was her choice. Hospice made sure we also had whatever resources we needed to cope with our loss. And now, for mere money, for their own obscene profit, heartless scum dare to take the good name of hospice and drag it through muck of their own making; to spit upon the manifest good that hospice does; to denigrate purely for their own sick and twisted propaganda the kind hearts and generous souls and devoted labors of those whose only crime is that they stand in the way of the insurance industry juggernaut. They are contemptible, and anyone who knows the truth and willingly goes along with their scaremongering is equally contemptible. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/55 "2009-07-31T01:23:16Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > My mother suffered terribly, without remit despite Fentanyl patches and other powerful painkillers, for much of the last few years of her life. Crippled by arthritis to a near-helpless mass of suffering flesh, wheelchairbound, dependent on portable oyxgen, her hearing and eyesight failing, her hands barely functioning; in and out of hospitals for a succession of crises that never quite carried her off; dependent on dozens of pills a day to go on, she spoke openly and with increasing urgency of wanting to die. Her mind was as sharp as her body was enfeebled; she knew exactly what her circumstances were. My three siblings and I didn’t want to lose her but respected her right to decide for herself, at age 89, after one last hospitalization, that she wanted no more lifesaving interventions, that it was time to turn to hospice for their help in easing her last weeks of life. > > Hospice was wonderful. The people we dealt with were kind, understanding, well-versed in what was needed – for the soon-to-be-bereaved living as much as the soon-to-die – and swiftly arranged all that was necessary for Mom to be liberated from the hospital and brought back to the assisted living that had been her home for the last decade. There, in her suite filled with the furnishings of her life; with her family at her side; with her devoted friends among both residents and staff in the facility coming to express their love, she had 24-hour nursing and, at her will, at times of her choosing, enough morphine to ease – finally! – the bulk of the pain that had tormented her for so long. > > She lingered for two weeks, sinking slowly but peacefully into the last sleep from which she never awakened. It was a kind and merciful and gentle death. Up until the last day or so Mom was conscious, kept her wits, knew what was going on, and was comforted by it. She looked forward, not with resignation, but with relief to the fast-approaching final sleep. We who were left behind had our grief greatly eased by seeing how kindly and gently she was eased on her final journey, a journey that was her choice. Hospice made sure we also had whatever resources we needed to cope with our loss. > > And now, for mere money, for their own obscene profit, heartless scum dare to take the good name of hospice and drag it through muck of their own making; to spit upon the manifest good that hospice does; to denigrate purely for their own sick and twisted propaganda the kind hearts and generous souls and devoted labors of those whose only crime is that they stand in the way of the insurance industry juggernaut. They are contemptible, and anyone who knows the truth and willingly goes along with their scaremongering is equally contemptible. This is the most moving and powerful thing I’ve ever read about hospice care. This should be printed and distributed all across the country. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/56 "2009-07-31T01:25:05Z")
Hear ye, hear her. Very well put, ETF. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/57 "2009-07-31T03:15:33Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > And now, for mere money, for their own obscene profit, heartless scum dare to take the good name of hospice and drag it through muck of their own making; to spit upon the manifest good that hospice does; to denigrate purely for their own sick and twisted propaganda the kind hearts and generous souls and devoted labors of those whose only crime is that they stand in the way of the insurance industry juggernaut. They are contemptible, and anyone who knows the truth and willingly goes along with their scaremongering is equally contemptible. Here’s a little truth I’d like to know: who’s been dragging the good name of hospice through the muck, for profit or anything else? I know that in my own case the concern regarding hospice is that my 80-year-old mother, full of vim and vitality, driving her own car, running her own errands, surfing the net, going out to dinner with friends and family, might discover that she has a spot on her lung that turns out to be cancer, and that it is in its early stages and her life could be saved by an operation to remove the tumor or perhaps her entire lung. Only problem is, the government may well have decided that according to their tables she is likely to live only four more years anyway (her mother lived to 107 btw, and her grandmother to 98) and that the cost of saving her life is not worth the time they say she has left to live anyway, and so they say to her: \*"We regret to inform you that the surgery you have requested has been denied. Enclosed is a list of lovely hospice centers where you may obtain pain medication and care to ease your shuffling off of this mortal coil. Have a nice day."\* No one I know of is saying anything negative about hospice centers except that they don’t want themselves and/or loved ones shuffled off to one in lieu of life-saving procedures that could save their lives but which have been denied by the government. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/58 "2009-07-31T03:20:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Only problem is, the government may well have decided that according to their tables she is likely to live only four more years anyway (her mother lived to 107 btw, and her grandmother to 98) and that the cost of saving her life is not worth the time they say she has left to live anyway, . Can you provide any cite in support of this fear, or is it just your belief that this is the logical end result of a public healthcare option? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/59 "2009-07-31T03:26:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Only problem is, the government may well have decided that according to their tables she is likely to live only four more years anyway (her mother lived to 107 btw, and her grandmother to 98) and that the cost of saving her life is not worth the time they say she has left to live anyway, and so they say to her: > > \*"We regret to inform you that the surgery you have requested has been denied. Enclosed is a list of lovely hospice centers where you may obtain pain medication and care to ease your shuffling off of this mortal coil. > > Have a nice day."\* > > No one I know of is saying anything negative about hospice centers except that they don’t want themselves and/or loved ones shuffled off to one in lieu of life-saving procedures that could save their lives but which have been denied by the government. But the government is far, far less likely to do that than a corporation. The corporation gains money by your mother’s death; the government loses votes by her death. You are speculating about a right wing paranoid fantasy becoming reality, when we already have corporations condemn people to death for real. But of course, that’s done for _ **profit** _ and is therefore sacred. The dying should be grateful that they had the chance to be martyrs to the One True God of Capitalism At Any Price. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730/60 "2009-07-31T03:41:12Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Can you provide any cite in support of this fear, or is it just your belief that this is the logical end result of a public healthcare option? It’s my belief that this is the logical result of government-run healthcare, based on many years of observation as to how government operates, how it operates in the Netherlands, based on **Maastricht’s** post (which I’ll try to find if anyone doubts it), and bolstered by the comments of many of the proponents of government health care around here which seem to indicate that they view these types of denials as only fair and reasonable…after all, everyone dies at some time and it’s ridiculous to spend limited taxpayer dollars just so someone can live a short while longer. > [@Der Trihs](#): > > But the government is far, far less likely to do that than a corporation. People around here keep saying that, but everyone I’ve known over the last four or five decades who had good health insurance has gotten the coverage they’re supposed to get. The only people I know of who have been denied coverage have been denied because they didn’t qualify for it in the first place, either because it wasn’t included in their plan or because they opted out of paying a larger premium in order to get that specific coverage. As I’ve gotten older, many of my friends and many of my relatives who are my parents’ age and older have come in for frequent and sometimes expensive care and medications, and I don’t know of a single instance where the coverage or medications they needed were denied. At worst they may have had to pay more than they expected, but they still got the treatment they needed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-target-is-hospice-wha/504730.md?page=4)