# The New York Post **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387 "2003-02-11T17:36:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/21 "2003-02-12T04:29:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Americans did die during the war, and their sacrifice is remembered and respected. It was a great thing that America did in the World Wars. there is no “selective amnesia” in Europe, their sacrifice is greatly remembered and respected. Read the “We shall remember” thread for an indication of that. Their dedication to Peacekeeping worldwide is admirable, and the UN peace forces benefit greatly from their expertise and dedication. That’s more like it. The statement in the OP, “and the usual no brainer “you’d all be speaking German if it wasn’t for us” attitude.” made me see red, but I’m grateful for your clearing up the confusion. FWIW, I agree with most of the rest of your post–America needs to work with other nations and not treat them as speed bumps in its imperial path. I disagree woth your stance on inspections; IMO they are an utter failure, but we can agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/22 "2003-02-12T05:40:53Z")
I think that guy from the Onion this week said it best–“When even GERMANY doesn’t want to fight, take the fucking hint, huh?” What do you expect from the NY Post? Bombing campaigns and a protracted groundwar would sell much more papers than UN inspections. And somebody whap this columnist over the head with a history book. America didn’t exactly swoop in to save all of Europe from the scourge of Hitler. Sure we helped, but I think there’s a couple million Russians who had quite a nice hand in the Allied victory as well, for starters. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/23 "2003-02-12T05:43:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*I disagree woth your stance on inspections; IMO they are an utter failure, but we can agree to disagree. \*\* And IMO they do work, but for another serendipitous reason: the more inspections there are, the more Sadam will have to hide his WMD (if he has them) and the capacity to make them. This means that it will be HARDER for Iraqi troops to get a hold of them when the real shooting starts. And when the shooting starts, there will be mad (and easy to detect) reckless dashes by the Iraqis to get those weapons on line, meaning that there will be yet another chance to detect and bomb the locations of those weapons. I think that Bush is being reckless for not seeing the diplomatic and military opportunities of giving more time for inspections (or more inspectors). ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/24 "2003-02-12T05:49:33Z")
Haha, well it’s amusing that people are taking a New York Post article seriously. I mean, it is frightening when you ride the subway and see the number of people actually reading it, but everyone with any sense sees the cover of the Post and just laughs hysterically. On any given day their cover is comical. The suggestion that the Daily News is any better is also pretty funny. I mean the post had a headline “Bloomburg Whack’s the city budget” and “Whack” was in like a 72 point font. The girl I was dating at the time and I just busted out laughing when we saw that. The Post is ridiculous. We should all be here cracking up at it’s pompousity. As for American view of France. I am glad that France, Germany, Belgium and Russia are taking a stand against the US hegemony. Let’s get rid of US hegemony for the benefit of all. However, I do agree with the sentiment that the UN is obsolete. Any international organization that views dictatorships as equal members with democracies is pretty much useless. When Libya can head the committee on human rights, and Iraq can head up the committee on disarmament, well you know there’s something seriously wrong with the organization. Erek Give a man a dollar and he eats for a meal, teach a man to print a dollar and he eats for a lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/25 "2003-02-12T06:25:40Z")
Steve Dunleavy exists to spark fires, and he succeeds. Reading his stuff once is sufficient. Regarding the French (and German) foreign policy _vis a vis_ Iraq, here’s another, more thoughtful, articulate point of view from Sen. John McCain, a reprint of the speech he gave last Saturday at the Munich Conference on Security Policy: [Freedom’s Defense](http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-mccain021103.asp) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/26 "2003-02-12T09:16:53Z")
Mr Dunleavy’s ranting and raving and tears in the cemetery are caused by he’s created a straw man. The debt of gratitude Europeans owe to the US will never die. But gratitude for sacrifices made more than 50 years ago, and capitulation for things being done today, are very different things. Exactly how long is the payback, in Mr Dunleavy’s mind. How long are we Europeans expected to say “yes” whenever the US wants to do something we oppose heartily? Is he the same with grudges, I wonder? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/27 "2003-02-12T10:40:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\*Whenever I hear “You’d be speking German if it wasn’t for US” I think of _KillingZoe_ 😛 \*\* I think of _A Fish called Wanda_. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/28 "2003-02-12T11:29:52Z")
> [@](#): > > However, broad support for building an international alliance to address the Iraq problem appeared more important than a quick strike. Fifty-nine percent said it was more important to bolster international support while 37 percent favor quick action, even if the United States has to go it alone. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/29 "2003-02-12T12:24:18Z")
London Calling wrote: > [@](#): > > What I don’t quite understand is that France is being dissed for a wide range of ‘anti-American’ behavior yet it is France that best reflects the majority view in every country in which public opinion polls have been taken, including the US – i.e. more time, more inspectors, no attack without a second Resolution. Second? Did you mean twentieth? ---
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/30 "2003-02-12T13:06:37Z")
I met Steve Dunleavy over drinks a while ago. You people _do_ realize he is a Murdoch-imported Aussie, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/31 "2003-02-12T13:09:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LolaCocaCola \* > \*\*I met Steve Dunleavy over drinks a while ago. You people _do_ realize he is a Murdoch-imported Aussie, don’t you? \*\* I had no idea. That makes him even more of a putz IMO. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/32 "2003-02-12T14:05:52Z")
It would be rather interesting to find Steve Dunleavy in a pub in Dublin. Rather interesting indeed… ---
**Author:** ![King\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/33 "2003-02-13T04:10:03Z")
I read the NY Post every day. I love the Post. But Steve Dunleavy is an asshole, and I almost never read his column. I thought this particular series was especially awful. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/34 "2003-02-14T12:07:37Z")
**Yojimbo** Thank you > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > I cannot speak for other countries, but here in the US there is no contradiction. You’re discussing specific tactics. However, on the broader question, the majority of Americans favor the use of force to oust Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein even without United Nations support . France is perceived as opposing the use of force against Iraq. **december** – Actually, you can’t even speak for your own country. Just for a change, you’re misrepresenting the facts… You posted: “ …majority of Americans favor the use of force to oust Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein even without United Nations support”. … but that article says: “A majority of respondents, 57 percent, said they would support an **allied attack** against Iraq even over objections of the United Nations …” Putting aside the question of the difference between “ousting” (your cliché) and an “attack” (the poll question characterization), it would seem the poll is saying 57% of Americans would support _action of some unspecified nature_ if the UK was involved in those attacks – we can argue of the military contribution of others but really, at this stage, it’s about the UK’s ‘allied’ contribution. And, in any event, I don’t believe Tony Blair can lend military support – perhaps beyond some aircraft – without a second Resolution so the entire question becomes academic – a pointless exercise, unless someone somewhere specifically wanted to create the illusionary impression so as to further a greater goal. Anyway, it’s all a rather a long way from your “….use of force to oust …” Finally, we both know that the _perception_ of France as being “_opposing the use of force against Iraq_ (your quote) is nonsense. The position of France, is as I stated above; more time, more inspectors, no attack without a second Resolution. Nonetheless, one has to think support for action of _any kind_ is growing in the US. Many have tried to put this entire Iraqi issue in historical terms, I’m not overly interested in that but it is interesting (to me) that support for this cause _appears_ to be firmer than did (AFAIK) support for US involvement in WW2 at any time prior to Pearl Harbor, at least as far as the president was concerned (polls being less accurate or regular way back when). On that basis, I find myself wondering how successful has been this administration whipping up the mob via the tabloid media …. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/35 "2003-02-14T12:50:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*That’s more like it. The statement in the OP, “and the usual no brainer “you’d all be speaking German if it wasn’t for us” attitude.” made me see red, but I’m grateful for your clearing up the confusion. FWIW, I agree with most of the rest of your post–America needs to work with other nations and not treat them as speed bumps in its imperial path. \*\* The point is, of course, that the “You’d all be speaking German” attitude has fuck all to do with this debate. Dunleavy is an ass for bringing it up, suggesting it be a good stick to beat the French over the head with. It’s no secret on these boards that I have a great admiration for the Liberators, Americans, Canadians, Russians, and Brits alike. _But that doesn’t mean that I have to blindly follow the US in every policy decision it makes, almost 60 years down the line._ And there’s another significant difference here. Hitler rose to power because of the backing of his own people. Now, who helped Saddam Hussein in the saddle again? Certainly not the population of Iraq, **gobear**. Saddam has now become a problem of global scale, whereas he was initially used as a peon for US interests alone. Quite a different scenario from a dictator conquering half an unwilling continent, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![Kaspar\_Hauser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Kaspar\_Hauser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaspar_Hauser)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/36 "2003-02-14T18:07:26Z")
Anyone seen today’s front page? A minor classic. My boss is probably the most leftist guy I know, and even _he_ loves the _Post_. It’s not a paper, it’s a humor publication! Sometimes it’s better than the _Onion._ ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/37 "2003-02-15T05:45:36Z")
I think I’m torn between picking my all-time favorite NY Post moment. It’s either the 20+ pages they did on John Gotti the day after they died, or the story about Israel killing a PLO leader. The one with the banner headline “BULLSEYE!” and somewhere in maybe the 20th paragraph of the story they mentioned that about a dozen children also died as a result of the bombing. Or heck, maybe it’s even the whole page of indignant letters they published about the networks not televising one of Bush’s prime-time speeches, even though the Bush administration itself told the networks there wasn’t really any reason to. ---
**Author:** ![Banger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/38 "2003-02-15T06:31:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kaspar Hauser \* > \*\*Anyone seen today’s front page? A minor classic. > > My boss is probably the most leftist guy I know, and even _he_ loves the _Post_. It’s not a paper, it’s a humor publication! Sometimes it’s better than the _Onion._ \*\* Today’s front page was a new low for the Post. It looked like something a tabloid would put on the cover. The headline is “UN Meets: Weasels to Hear New Iraq Evidence”. Two of the UN delegates (Germany and France, who oppose the US push for war) have weasel heads superimposed on their bodies. I miss the good old days of “Headless Man Found in Topless Bar” ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Banger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/39 "2003-02-15T06:38:17Z")
I saved the front page for posterity’s sake (it’s a .gif file alternating between the front page and back page; looks like Jeter’s pissed at Steinbrenner too hehe): [![](http://static.hugedomains.com/images/logo_huge_domains.gif) ](http://static.hugedomains.com/images/logo_huge_domains.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387/40 "2003-02-15T06:50:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Banger \* > \*\*Today’s front page was a new low for the Post. It looked like something a tabloid would put on the cover. \*\* Well, yeah. The Post is basically a well-circulated tabloid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-post/154387.md?page=3)